vrt vs weight lifting

[jayjay6631]

what are the pros and cons of vrt vs weight lifting

[Andy62]

Weightlifters use VRT to break through mental barriers. VRT will not cause injuries as weightlifting will. You can use VRT anywhere and anytime and it will build internal strength or NEVER FORCE which weights will not do. VRT builds a more flexible,more enduring, strength than weights and it is a adaptable to a wide variety of activites.

[Royce]

what are the pros and cons of vrt vs weight lifting

Much of this board is dedicated to explaining the various advantages of VRT/DVR resistance.

So trying to list and explain all of the various advantages and disadvantages in a single post seems a bit foolish.

Suffice to say that VRT/DVR resistance is essentially isokinetics sans apparatus.

There are huge advantages when one embraces a system of exercise that can be practiced virtually anywhere. As with any form of progressive resistance, VRT/DVR resistance can build muscle size and strength.

The exercises work superbly well for those who learn to adequately create the requisite muscle tension, but not nearly so well for those who can’t or won’t.

For those who grasp how to flex in a maximal fashion, DVRs will build maximum size and power within the limits of one’s genetic profile.

At this point, I simply don’t have the time or inclination to really compare weightlifting and DVR/VRT resistance as I used to. To do so, simply brings out folks who want to debate the issue to death. And a high percentage of the people debating have never used DVR/VRT resistance.

I find DVR/VRT to be an elegant way to train. I have written a range of routines that scores of people here have used with great success. The routines do work if they are correctly applied. That is a fact.

If one can’t get the VRT/DVR system to work, then they should move on to something that they like better, such as weights and cables.

You see, when it comes to VRT/DVR resistance training you don’t have to take anyone’s word for anything. You just have to do the exercises and judge for yourself. And the cost is zero.

But if you are serious about training, by all means purchase Greg’s CD.
Certainly, Greg’s CD beautifully illustrates many of the fine exercises one can do with VRT/DVR resistance. Spend a few bucks and get a copy. You won’t be sorry.

[Alan_OldStudent]

what are the pros and cons of vrt vs weight lifting

Hi JayJay,

Looks like you're new to our forum, so let me be among the first to welcome you.

Bear in mind I am not anywhere near as advanced as many of the other brothers and sisters who post here, but here's my take:

Some advantages of weight lifting:
Objective measure of progress as measured by numbers of pounds or kilograms on weight.
If you like the gym ambience, that is an advantage.
Conventional and widely-accepted training modality
Some disadvantages of weight lifting:
High incidence of cumulative damage to joints and tendons for many of those who use more than moderately-heavy weights over an extended period of time (a year or more).
If you don't like the gym ambience, that is a disadvantage.
Weights place resistance in one plane only, as opposed to VRT or devices like Nautilus machines.
Machines like Nautilus provide a greater range of resistance, but they have limited adjustment to individual differences in the exerciser's body size and proportion.
Dangers of sudden trauma owing to accidents or loss of balance
Advantages of VRT:
Greatly reduced chance of injury to muscles, joints, or tendons.
Greatly reduced chance of injury owing to sudden trauma or loss of balance or coordination.
Much fuller resistance through a much greater range of motion. Because the resistance comes from agonist against antagonist muscle contractions, the arc of resistance is far more suitable than can be provided by either weights or machines.
VRT focus much more on the muscles and the brain-muscle connection, the sensation of muscular contraction, as opposed to focusing on an external item, the weight.
Disadvantages of VRT:
No objective measurement of progress in terms of numbers of pounds or kilograms.
Some people find it hard or impossible to visualize intensely enough for this to be effective. This requires extreme concentration, which can be time-consuming and difficult to develop for some, especially for those who are quite used to other training modalities.
Personally, I use strictly body weight, VRT, DVR, and DSRs to a lesser extent. I occasionally do heavyhands with 2-pound weights, but that hardly qualifies as weight lifting.

Others here use various combinations of lifting light or medium weights and body weight exercises, VRT, DVR, and DSRs. The members who utilize weights here don't discuss it too much on this forum because of this forum's focus, but they participate in other forums as well as this one.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Alan OldStudent

[douglis]

Alan OldStudent gave a very good review of the pros and cons of vrt vs weight lifting.
I want to add a more direct comparison.
With free weights you are called to balance the weight and that engages the stabilizers muscles while VRT feels more like training with machines.
On the other hand in VRT the resistance comes from the antagonist muscle and that means you train both the agonist and the antagonist at the same time with all the related hormonal benefits of engaging many muscle groups at once.
Who is the winner?I think you should try both and judge for yourself.Personally i don't think i'll go back to weights again.

[jayjay6631]

since i'm not putting weight on the muscle to break it down am I still buidling muscle with vrt? and how?

[gruntbrain]

Experiment with both protocols. your selection may vary depending on the target muscle. You may even decide to perform both.

Clearly, VRTs are a safer choice esp. when performing full ROM exercises

While experimenting consider other protocolsl : Powercals from JP's PYTP & Isometrics from his IPR

[Royce]

since i'm not putting weight on the muscle to break it down am I still buidling muscle with vrt? and how?

Nothing says that you have to use a weight to build muscle size and strength; instead, you need resistance.

Cables, weights, friction devices—such as the Exergenie—and antagonistic muscle action all provide resistance. VRT/DVR exercises provide resistance through the braking action elicited by antagonistic muscle action.

Bottom line:

All of the aforementioned protocols will build muscle size and strength.

[Alan_OldStudent]

since i'm not putting weight on the muscle to break it down am I still buidling muscle with vrt? and how?

Hi JayJay,

Again, please bear in mind that many here are much more knowledgeable than I about these matters.

Probably 90% of people who lift weights assume that the only way to, as you put it, break down a muscle is for that muscle to struggle to the point of failure by moving against an external weight. The conventional theory says that the muscle fibers experience "micro-tears." As they heal up during a rest period of a day or so, they grow stronger than they were before, sort of overcompensating.

That is to say, the muscle grows and becomes stronger. Then the weight lifter increases the weight to reinitiate that process.

That is why conventional weight trainers advocate rest days between heavy workouts.

However, this modality raises certain questions:
Why should we assume that the only way to put stress on a muscle, i.e., exercise that muscle, is to pit it against a weight or weight machine? After all, the contracting muscle does not know what force it is exerting itself against. When you think about it, it is not the heaviness of the weight that causes the muscle to contract forcefully. Rather, it is the brain sending huge numbers of messages to huge numbers of muscle fibers that causes the muscle to contract forcefully.

So realistically, couldn't that force be anything, a weight, a spring, or another muscle? I do not know of any scientific studies that address this specific question.

However, Greg Magnan does have an academic background in exercise physiology, and he invented the VRT method. He has a background in weight training and perhaps will jump in with some more evidence-based material.

Personally, my common sense and experience tell me that resistance can come from antagonist muscles working against agonist muscles, if one can just develop sufficient mental focus to develop that brain-muscle connection, what some here have called "nerve force."


Moreover, just why does a muscle have to exercise to failure to gain benefit?

Again, I do not know of scientific studies that address this question, not being an expert in exercise physiology. However, my experience and common sense tell me that it is perhaps a bit better to train just a little shy of failure. Here's why:
Thousands of tiny muscle fibers comprise a muscle, each fiber firing in response to a signal from the brain.
When a muscle fiber fires, it contracts 100%. It's an all-or-nothing proposition. It either fires, or it doesn't. When a muscle such as the biceps moves gently, this is a sign that the brain sent signals to a small percentage of those muscle fibers commanding them to fire. When the biceps moves forcefully, this is a sign that the brain sent out a much greater number of commands to a much greater number of muscle fibers.
The brain learns from experience, and strength training involves allowing the brain to command muscle fibers more thoroughly, as well as developing those muscle fibers.
If the brain experiences exercise as being progressively uncomfortable as the set goes on, eventually ending in failure, that is what the brain learns.
On the other hand, if what the brain experiences in exercise is success in moving against greater and greater resistance, it learns success, not failure.
Successful, energizing, and pleasurable exercise sessions encourage a healthy exercise regimen. Exercise sessions marked by failure, discomfort, and pain encourage goofing off or abandoning lifelong habits of exercise.

Over the past 9 months that I have been doing this form of exercise, I personally have been experiencing a degree of physical development and improvement without having to exercise to failure.

When I finish my workout, I feel energized and good, not drained. My mood is improved. And I can work out most days of the week. Bear in mind I am not far from being 70 years of age and am not a superman. My physical fitness potential and physical development potential are very average, but despite that, because of VRT and Transformetrics, I am now in better condition than most men half my age.


Regards,

Alan OldStudent

[douglis]

As Royce and Alan said,resistance is resistance.Muscles don't really care if it comes from weights,cables,bodyweight,another limb or antagonist muscle as in VRT case.
The main argument of the critics is that body's protection mechanism might not allow near or above maximal contractions.Although i disagree lets say it's true.
The misconception here is that in order to have strength or size gains you don't need maximum contractions.In fact the ideal level of tension is around 70% of your maximum.This level of tension is definitely provided by the agonists-antagonists co-contraction(VRT).

[Royce]

Allen wrote:


Again, I do not know of scientific studies that address this question, not being an expert in exercise physiology. However, my experience and common sense tell me that it is perhaps a bit better to train just a little shy of failure.

Royce replies:

Allen, I don't want to nit pick, but I want to talk a bit more about the statement above.
I think it should be pointed out for the new people here that when doing isometrics, DVRs and power flexing, the concept of training to failure is rather meaningless.

If you take a dumbbell of say forty pounds and start curling it, you will reach a point where it is impossible for you to budge the weight—that is the point of complete failure. However, if you train with DVRs, you are using accommodating resistance. As one continues on with repetition after repetition, the force being exerted will, eventually, be greatly diminished, but it will be very difficult to reach a point where one can no long move one’s arms.

A similar situation exists when doing either isometrics or power flexing.

Of course, if the statement is changed and one is advised to put forth only, say, 90% of maximum force for a given number of repetitions, that protocol can be executed.

However, generally speaking, I find that putting forth a maximum effort with DVRs/VRTs for one set of ten repetitions works best for building maximum size and power. Obviously, to develop more endurance, more repetitions might be desired.

But obviously one should experiment and determine what is best for them ind

[douglis]

That's another great advantage of VRT.
It ended once and for all the endless debate of failure or not failure!

[Alan_OldStudent]

Allen wrote:


Again, I do not know of scientific studies that address this question, not being an expert in exercise physiology. However, my experience and common sense tell me that it is perhaps a bit better to train just a little shy of failure.

Royce replies:

Allen, I don't want to nit pick, but I want to talk a bit more about the statement above.
I think it should be pointed out for the new people here that when doing isometrics, DVRs and power flexing, the concept of training to failure is rather meaningless.

If you take a dumbbell of say forty pounds and start curling it, you will reach a point where it is impossible for you to budge the weight—that is the point of complete failure. However, if you train with DVRs, you are using accommodating resistance. As one continues on with repetition after repetition, the force being exerted will, eventually, be greatly diminished, but it will be very difficult to reach a point where one can no long move one’s arms.

A similar situation exists when doing either isometrics or power flexing.

Of course, if the statement is changed and one is advised to put forth only, say, 90% of maximum force for a given number of repetitions, that protocol can be executed.

However, generally speaking, I find that putting forth a maximum effort with DVRs/VRTs for one set of ten repetitions works best for building maximum size and power. Obviously, to develop more endurance, more repetitions might be desired.

But obviously one should experiment and determine what is best for them ind

Excellent point, Royce.

Thanks for the explanation. You're definitely one of those who appears to me to be much more knowledgeable than I about exercise.

Regards,

Alan OldStudent

[jayjay6631]

is it allright to do vrt everyday or should I do it every other day?

[Alan_OldStudent]

is it allright to do vrt everyday or should I do it every other day?

Hi JayJay,

I just let my body be the guide. Because this form of exercise is fun, pleasurable, and leaves me feeling energized, I don't have to "make" myself exercise.

I found that when I did other forms of exercise (weights and machines) years ago, it took discipline to make myself go to the gym, because I felt exhausted and spent after a workout.

Currently, most days I'm up to doing this kind of exercise nearly daily, but every 2 or 3 weeks, I take a day or 2 off. When I do, I almost have to force myself to lay off, as opposed to forcing myself to exercise.

But that's me. You may be different. Some people may need every-other-day breaks.

So ask yourself if you're feeling up to it and strong. If you're feeling run down one day, take a rest.

I think it's important to learn what your body responds to and just disregard all the formulaic shoulds that others hand you. There is a saying on this forum about how you should be your own best trainer. There is a lot to be said for that.

Part of this type of training is learning to be really in touch with how your body feels and how it is doing. It's learning to be a wise and supportive self-coach.

Regards,

Alan OldStudent

[MikeNY]

Alan I second your advice, sound and thoughtful. If people just listen to thier body they'll know the answer.

[Andy62]

I saw a friend of mine today that I haven't seen for a long time. He remarked how healthy I look and asked me how I was feeling. We started to discuss exercise and I told him that I was using DVR/VRT and Isometrics [ I even showed him my Isometric Power Belt] and that with all of the injuries that I had in my youth I do not have any joint or muscle pain at the present time and I attribute much of it to the type of exercise that I do. He is several years younger than I am and he said that he had been lifting weights and it was starting to affect him adversely. He may be a future convert.