DVR Deadlift Results???

[kenpopaul]

Hi All,

Does anyone here use DVR deadlifts as part of their workouts?? If so I was wondering what kind of results you have noticed from doing them (as in strength and muscle gain).

Not done them for a while and thinking of adding them to my workout.

Love to hear from you all.

Kanpopaul

[revwally]

I don't do them DVR, but I do do 2 sets of them with weights - 5 rep at top weight then 5 rep at 90% -- also I do them as isos, holding a 2" pvc pipe. I like the feel of them

wally

[kenpopaul]

Yeah they used to be my fav weights exercise, but as I no longer use weights I'm thinking of adding them DVR style.

I know Royce uses them in his HIT workouts and I've done them before DVR style, just not for a long period of time.

Love them though :)

[Nathan]

Hey Kenpopaul,

I haven't done deadlifts a lot DVR style. But I usually do them as an isometric (I really like this one). Anyway good luck and maybe think about doing the deadlift as an isometric. All the best.

---Nathan---

[gruntbrain]

If anyone here does a "real" deadlift they should precede their lift with a virtual one; you'll be " in the groove" when you lift for real( this may include necessary non training lifts around the house)

[Royce]

Ken,

DVR deadlifts are great. I like to do them "Sumo style."
What follows is a question and answer exchange that took place a few years ago between a former forum member and me. I think it nicely focuses on your question, Ken.

Since it was a private conversation, I’m just posting my response to the query.
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My DVR routines emulate various exercises that are performed by a variety of apparatus: cables, weights, Nautilus, etc. In my workouts, visualizations add variety and zest to my exercises. I sometimes do Tiger Moves, but not often.

Isometrics have become important, and I’m experimenting with a wide range of protocols. The jury is still out, but so far, I’m extremely pleased with the results. And the isometrics nicely compliment my DVRs. Like the DVRs, I have found them to increase both muscle size and strength. Despite their positive effects, I consider isometrics to be supplementary to my DVRs.

On some occasions, I use an Exergenie which is an isokinetic device and it supplies some variation while give me a means to judge my strength levels.

I trained with a wide range of exercise apparatus over the years, although for most of my life, I lifted weights. In the early days, the weights allowed me to add bodyweight and strength to a very lean frame. When I was 17 years old, I only weighed 150 pounds at a height of 6 feet. A combat tour in Vietnam didn’t help me at to my weight. It was only after I returned home from the Service and started lifting weights that I gained size and power. I did a lot of power rack work in those days. And I always focused on low repetitions and heavy weights. That training eventually took me up to 216 pounds of solid muscle. After those early years, work and other interference impacted my training. Although I maintained a zest for training, my weightlifting opportunities were somewhat limited at various times. I sort of forgot how important the heavy power rack work had been.

About 15 years ago, I once again became very serious about training, and started lifting in a very programmed way. I experimented with a wide range of routines, but for the sake of brevity, I will simply say that I eventually reached a plateau. And, despite my best efforts, I stopped gaining strength and muscle. It was around that time that I started to read a lot of Mike’s material and decided to do a complete reevaluation of my efforts.



Weight training is very strenuous and can cause most of us to over train in a short period of time. Much of the stress of weight training comes from supporting the weight, rather than from the actual lifting. Admittedly, the distinction can become a bit confusing.

Those who have great genetics and/or are on the “juice” recovery more quickly than most from intense weight workouts.

Mentzer recognized that fact and developed methods to avoid over training.

Each of us has a limited amount of energy, and we have to work within those energy limits. I’m not going to get into the more exotic methods of maximizing energy flow. That is a subject for another day. My personal regimen involves Qi Gong. But, for the sake of this discussion, let’s just talk about the objective observation that some of us have greater energy reserves than others. Each of us has to train within the limits of our recuperative abilities.

High Intensity training features very brief but hard workouts. When I was on my HIT program, I worked out only once a week. Here is a representative program:

Dead lifts 1 set of ten repetitions.

Rows 1 set of ten repetitions.

Curls 1 set of ten repetitions.

Bench press 1 set of ten repetitions.

Military press 1 set of ten repetitions.

The aforementioned program allowed me to make significant strength gains in all of the above exercises. I tried to get three days of moderate walking a week, too. I would have to get my old logbooks out to specifically tell you the poundage I used.. But the program did wonders for about a year. I think I added something like 30 pounds to my dead lift in one year.

But there was some significant downside. Although I never injured myself, I did experience very pronounced soreness the day after my workouts. And while my strength levels went up in those exercises, I found that my strength levels fell when doing any sort of non-standard movement. Remember that the results of exercise do tend to be very specific. I also didn’t like being totally exhausted after a day of training. My flexibility also seemed to be suffering.

All of this caused me to start looking for something new. A variation of the methods advocated on John’s board has proven to be ideal for me.

But I don’t do things they way John does. And I think my many posts have illustrated that fact.

I know that DVRs/isokinetics have built both size and strength. And from correspondence with some other folks—people not regularly on this board—I know that their experience is similar to mine.

It’s my belief that any kind of resistance builds strength. DVRs are isokinetics and, as such, will build great size and strength as determined by our genetic potential.

DVRs/isokinetics don’t require one to support a heavy load; consequently, one can work out more often than with weights and still not over train. But it is DEFINITELY possible to over do it with DVRs and isometrics.

My strength levels are staying high and increasing from my DVRs and isometrics as determined by strand pulling and my Exergenie. It has been some time since I last tested myself on weights. But strength levels were higher when I last did a test with weights.

Now there is a myriad of ways to construct DVR/isometric routines. And some will work better than others. Personally, I like my split routine where I work my upper body on Mondays and Thursdays and lower body on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I no longer endure the severe burnout that I experienced from HIT, and I judge my dynamic strength to have greatly increased. It is admittedly a bit vague to say that my dynamic strength has increased, but, in general terms, I feel fit and am able to engage in heavy physical labor and the like without undue stress.

So where does this all leave us? I guess that I think anyone who isn’t getting good results with DVRs and isometrics might be advised to scrutinize their specific training routine, rather than to doubt the efficacy of the system itself.

I don’t envision ever going back to weights, since I think that it is an inferior modality when compared to DVRs and isometric.

Anyway please give some consideration to my observations and then let me hear how you see these matters. Your correspondence is always welcome, so don’t hesitate to write.

Sincerely,
Royce

[kenpopaul]

As always, excellent post royce!!

I'm currently on a 3 day a week program consisting of around 8-9 main mass building exercises, doing 1 set of High Tension for each exercise and LOVING it again.

Once my progress starts to decline I think I might do a split like you suggest.

I'll keep you informed.

Thanks Royce

Kenpopaul

[Scott Silva]

High Intensity training features very brief but hard workouts. When I was on my HIT program, I worked out only once a week. Here is a representative program:

Dead lifts 1 set of ten repetitions.

Rows 1 set of ten repetitions.

Curls 1 set of ten repetitions.

Bench press 1 set of ten repetitions.

Military press 1 set of ten repetitions.

The aforementioned program allowed me to make significant strength gains in all of the above exercises. I tried to get three days of moderate walking a week, too. I would have to get my old logbooks out to specifically tell you the poundage I used.. But the program did wonders for about a year. I think I added something like 30 pounds to my dead lift in one year.

Hi Royce;

I think your weight program was fascinating, don't have to get out your logbooks for me but please, just give us a ballpark figure on some of those weights you used, I know they were good...

Even more fascinating was your warm-up procedure you used, could you explain that a bit too???

My problem with bodyweight training in the past has been that my lower back strength has suffered a bit, I really believe from your posts that you may have solved that with Iso's & DVR's (That's of course the MOST fascinating)!!!

Even though I have almost all of John's literature I'm still having trouble coming to grips with those modalities...

Thank's for any replies;

WB

[gruntbrain]

Even "real lifters" would likey agree that stiff legged deads done virtually are a valuable addition to their training; they provide provide a great way to increase "strength flexibility"

[VRT Man]

I've been doing stiff legged deadlifts VRT style just as shown in Greg Mangan's original video off and on for about eight years now. I find that it helps prevent the occasional lower back pain that bothered me for years.

Thanks Jim, and to others on this thread, I have been doing these for perhaps two decades, and I can tell you if one is troubled by sciatica, a troubling ailment affecting many an older man or woman, that this is truly a miracle remedy.

After personally dismissing this one exercise from my VRT exercises for a period of about two years, I re-instituted it, after developing a painful and troubling sciatica that even isometrics and back stretches couldn't seem to diminish.

I found that after 3 to 4 days or more of VRT deadlifts that the pain become almost completely diminished and was no longer noticeable. I would recommend this to anyone who has this condition.

--Greg Mangan

[kenpopaul]

Wow fascinating!! My mother suffers from sciatica - I'll show her the exercise and try to get her to start doing them!!

Thanks Greg

[THESUPERBEAST]

So is it safe to say that incorporarting dvr deadlifts can potentially ease or prevent lower back pain and stiffness? It makes sense because you are strengthing those muscles directly without undo weight or stress from additional weight strain.

[gruntbrain]

Flexible folks with healthy backs can initiate a stiff legged deadlift from a raised platform; proceed cautiously

[Royce]

Hi Royce;

I think your weight program was fascinating, don't have to get out your logbooks for me but please, just give us a ballpark figure on some of those weights you used, I know they were good...

Even more fascinating was your warm-up procedure you used, could you explain that a bit too???

My problem with bodyweight training in the past has been that my lower back strength has suffered a bit, I really believe from your posts that you may have solved that with Iso's & DVR's (That's of course the MOST fascinating)!!!

Even though I have almost all of John's literature I'm still having trouble coming to grips with those modalities...

Thank's for any replies;

WB

Royce’s lifts


I sure wish I had my logs in front of me. When I moved a few years ago, many of the logs were misplaced.

However, when it comes to the bench press, I can be specific. I did 225 pounds for eight reps and a 425 single rep. That occurred at a bodyweight of 200 pounds. And I used an “exercise bar”—not an Olympic bar.

I really hate to say much about the other lifts unless I find the logs.

At a bodyweight of around 205, I was using around 430 pounds for eight repetitions in the dead lift. But, gee, that is a rough estimate. My all time best dead lift at 240 pounds of bodyweight was around 600 pounds.

As for warming up, I always talked a good show. But, in point of fact, I did darn little over the years. The trouble is, I always was afraid for people if they didn’t warm up, so I would suggest all kinds of warm ups that I never did myself. I didn’t want people getting hurt on my account.

[gruntbrain]

Royce
Modest tension DVRs are a good way to warmup; also throw in some deep breathing with visualizations

[jan]

For me, DVR deadlifts work on the upper leg musculatur, back and abdominal muscles.

Jan

[gruntbrain]

Deadlifts are one of the best total body developers; the exercize King? With the DVR/VRT protocol you can perform "endless reps" & even achieve cardio benefits