Taxes under Obama $32,000 and up are the rich

[MikeNY]

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[Free]

We, as a nation, are at a pivotal point in our history. This election will decide whether we will retain the freedom to choose what we do with our hard earned money, or turn that freedom over to the government entirely.

It is the first time we might elect an open socialist, who's main goal is not funding the programs that would benefit citizens, but rather re-distributing ones hard earned money, to someone else, who has not earned that money.

Once we cross that boundary, we will be past the point of no return, and the country will eventually collapse under the onerous burden of taxation that discourages productivity, and those who do not want to succeed, but want government to "take care of them".

This has been proven time and again, throughout history, in other socialist countries, and any support of such policies, reflects an underlying hatred for the freedom this country was founded on and stands for.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/kevin_o_brien/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1225355662113460.xml&coll=2

[JoeJustice]

I'm with you guys on the socialism stuff, but I have to say, for me what really worries me about Obama is stuff like this...

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/29/joe30.html?sid=101
http://www.drudgereport.com/flashopp.htm

-Joe

[Free]

Just calling the last 8 years "trickle down economics" does not make it so. The tax system is so tilted towards so called "Fairness" for the lower income earners that it is obscene. The top 1% pay almost 40% of all the taxes, and have to work harder and harder each year to do so, while the bottom 50% only pay 2.9% of all taxes. There is no way a sane person can call that tilted towards the rich, and for "trickle down" to actually work, you would need to cut taxes on upper income earners to actually make the system more "Fair".

The economy is in the tank, for two reasons:

1. Excessive Government spending under George Bush, and the democratic congress.

2. The housing bubble initiated by the bad loan policies of you know who.

[MikeNY]

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[gruntbrain]

It's interesting that the big money guys( not just Buffet & Soros) support Obama. My hope is that these financial mavens know what they're doin' even if it appears to be counterintuitive

[JoeJustice]

In reference to grunt's point...
http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20081031114947.aspx

MikeNY, I think calling someone a NAZI is too far. I agree with your sentiment, but that's the kind of thing the Left usually does.

-Joe

[MikeNY]

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[Free]

You mean like giving tax cuts to the wealthy companies who are off-shoring our jobs? That's been tried and isn't helping anyone.

Except for maybe the companies who are employing cheap labor overseas.



The Democratic Congress that has been in power a whole 2 years? What exactly did Bush and the Republican-majority Congress accomplish together in the previous 6 years?

Republicans can't say that they haven't been given a fair chance to run things.

But all that has resulted is that the country appears to now want to go in a different direction. We'll see if I'm right come Tuesday.

This just shows a common lack of understanding of Economics, and the common democratic tactic of demonizing companies. First of all, companies are not "wealthy" they are owned by shareholders, that invest in their 401K's, ordinary people from all walks of life. If the company prospers, their stock goes up.

Secondly, companies don't pay taxes, they just transfer the cost on to the consumer. If you raise corporate taxes, what happens... prices go up. Really, really simple and basic economics.

Also, raising corporate taxes, can only do one other thing, and that is drive jobs overseas. Why would a corporation stay in a country that imposes onerous taxes, forcing them to pass that along to the consumer in higher prices, when they can move to a country where the tax rate is lower.

This just demonstrates the lack of economic knowledge in Obama, the democrats, and those that follow them.

Also, seems like the economy has gone to hell in the last year, was doing great before that, and I don't think Bush is a good example of a fiscally conservative Republican. John McCain would be much more in line with Ronald Reagan than George Bush, just as Obama would be to the far left of Jimmy Carter.

[Free]

Jobs have already been going overseas, for years. The number I've seen thrown around is that more than 2 million manufacturing jobs alone have been lost since the current president has been in office.

Lou Dobbs has a depressingly long list of all the companies that are "exporting America" over on CNN.

Why haven't the Bush tax cuts been the panacea that they supposedly are and stopped those companies from going elsewhere? I'm no economist, but maybe there's more to it than "lower taxes, jobs stay/raise taxes, jobs go."


Because, simply, the tax rates are still too high compared to other countries, and the Bush tax cuts did nothing to change that. It is perfectly clear cause and effect:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1466.html

John McCain recognizes that, and knows that the corporate tax rate must be lowered to entice them back into the US. Obama is Oblivious as usual.

[MikeNY]

The US needs National Health Insurance & Care Plan, ours is not the best system, only 14 cents on each medical dollar goes to Medical Care, the rest mostly goes to the insurance Companies that Obama represents. The government would pay for the plan, taxes supoort it and most care would be in Clinics not in Hospitals or Hospital Emergency Rooms. Nonprofit HMO's and not an open ended benifit and then we can have entended coverage offered to workers and those that can afford it.

[gruntbrain]

My Obama-nomics concerns have lessened significantly with the endorsements from the money mavens. Powell's endorsement also alleviates some concerns. That said, How can we make money under Obama? REITs? Alternative energy? ... Short oil companies, big pharma? ..

[Andy62]

Regardless of who is elected we are in totally uncharted waters. New Federal Programs always have unintended consequences. Look at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac together with Ethanol. Ethanol was originally backed by some of the most sophisticated investors in the world including Sir Richard Branson. Many of the factors that will determine the future of the Western European and North American economies are under the control of others as they have been for the last few years. Tremendous power will be in the hands of the oil rich Arab Gulf Countries [ it will take years to adapt to any new alternative sources of energy] together with certain Asian countries including China. The economic equillbruim of the world has changed forever. Stay strong, keep alert, and let your personal strategies evolve.

[Free]

The business and Wall Street elite support Obama, yet Free says that Obama's supporters lack economic knowledge? Those statements would appear to contradict each other.

By the way, 2 Nobel Prize winners in economics have endorsed Obama (Joseph Stiglitz and Ned Phelps) and he has also been endorsed by Warren Buffett, The Economist, and Financial Times.

There are those on Wall Street that give to both parties, to have a foot in the door with whomever wins. One can only hope, that if he does win, they will have some impact on lessening his assault on our economy.

Just because someone is an "economist" doesn't mean that they know what they are talking about, there are plenty of "Dr.'s", and "Reverends" out there, that have little to do with either. Also, the Nobel prize is a joke, made very clear since Al Gore received one.

Warren Buffett, I could go on, and on about, but his left leaning politics have always been clear, and he always has an angle to his endorsements. Like many wealthy democrats, he could easily give more of his money to the government, but he would rather encourage government to steal it from others, while he positions his investments to avoid the same fate.

[gruntbrain]

Ideology may play a role in selecting the Nobel in economics - the Paul Krugman selection?

[gruntbrain]

Ideology can make morons outta many of us incl. PHDs. That said, I hope Krugman's Nobel award was deserved & not a result of biased award makers