VRT and size

[vegetus25]

What do you feel is the best way (sets, reps, frequency, exercises, etc) to use VRT in an attempt for an ectomorph to gain size? Please state if you think combining VRT w/ other methods is better than VRT alone, i.e. VRT and Power Cals, etc.

Thanks and God bless,

Veg

[VRT Man]

Although I combine VRT with power cals, push-ups and pull-ups for overall fitness and cardio, I do believe that VRT ALONE can increase musclular size. However, the complex issue of the ectomorph's physiology and metabolism inevitably comes into play; how to gain size and overcome this high metabolic rate that keeps me thin. I tend to gain mesomorphic weight quite easily; but others need a fantastic intake of extra calories to even show even a fraction of an inch of growth on the musculature. Most others, like douglis as an example, simply gain weight when doing VRT, but it may take a thousand to two thousand extra calories a day for you to gain that weight. I would say an HIT program of VRT; one to two sets of very high intensity at least 3 to 4 times a week; my periods last from 20 minutes to a half-hour. But I believe it is caloric intake that is holding you back from mesomorphic gains in size.

--Greg Mangan

[vegetus25]

Greg,

Thanks for the response. I unfortunately am one of those thin guys who can gain weight, but do so in equal proportions. If I gain 10 pounds of muscle it brings its flabby friend, 10 pounds of fat. And when I lose they are such good buddies they both go away. So I have either been skinny guy or skinny-fat guy. Trust me, neither are too pretty.

I have been adjusting my diet to see if that helps. I have upped my fat intake as an experiment. I have never really eaten a really high protein diet, so I might try that. I also am going to experiment w/ zig-zagging my calories to see if I can gain and retain more muscle.

Any advice on a HIT routine? Full body, split, etc. Also I think I will have to keep push-ups in any workout. It is really hard to give them up :)

Thanks and God bless,

Veg

[douglis]

Veg,
I try to keep my calories 300-400 above my daily needs and seems to work fine since I gain,slow but steadily,2 pounds a month without any excess bodyfat.Of course when you increase your calories intake you must always follow an hypertrophy routine to make sure that the excess calories will go to the muscles.In my opinion hypertrophy routines should be intensive and not very frequent.
VRT perfectly matches with HIT and I believe 1-2 maximum tension sets for a few basic exercises is all you need in the beginning.However lately I discovered that I can handle more volume since VRT is much milder to the CNS than weight training.
As for routines I definitely suggest a split routine.After a max tension back training I can't even raise my arms.It's impossible to continue with chest training for example.If you have the time you can take a look at my workout log for details(sets, reps, frequency, exercises, etc).

[Royce]

What do you feel is the best way (sets, reps, frequency, exercises, etc) to use VRT in an attempt for an ectomorph to gain size? Please state if you think combining VRT w/ other methods is better than VRT alone, i.e. VRT and Power Cals, etc.

Thanks and God bless,

Veg

The Mighty Mite Routine!


Here's a program that has worked well for many people.

Are you just plain tired of long boring routines? Do you want to build size and strength and still have time for your girlfriend/boyfriend and other activities.

Then consider the briefest of brief routines. I call it the Mighty Mite Workout.

I have always advocated tightly scripted workouts. This is especially important for anyone doing HIT.

As I have said for years, you can never work out too hard, but you can workout too much. Brief, intense and infrequent workouts are the rule.

But choosing the right exercises is vital. There are only a few key exercises and they must not be neglected if you want maximum power and size.

And here are the key exercises:

Dead lifts
Leg press
Squats
Bench press
Rows

And here are some combinations that will net maximum size and strength:



Combination 1
Dead lifts
Bench press
Rows

Combination 2
Squats
Bench press
Rows

Combination3
Leg press
Bench press
Rows

Sure you can add lot’s of other stuff. But don't do it. Just perform one set of ten repetitions at maximum tension.

Take one of the above combinations and do each exercise with one set of DVRs at maximum tension.

And do some "High Stepping" on your "off days". Do at least twenty high steps a day with each leg while applying moderate DVR tension.

[IanRunner]

Hi everyone

Douglis,

You have very Impressive results. How long do you take for each rep to gain such tension, if you dont mind me asking please?


Ian

[Royce]

For hard gainers—and they are frequently ectomorphs-- there are lots of different kinds of progressive resistance training to choose from. But hard gainers do best with short, brief, intense and infrequent, routines. And the heavy, compound movements are recommended—the ones that work the chest, back and legs to the maximum.

The general rule is to do no more than one set of ten repetitions. The Mighty Mite program I posted earlier is a great approach, but my original HIT program also does a great job. And it is a favorite with a lot of people because it features a lot of power cals.

Personally, I’m not a great fan of power cals, but they do work; make no mistake about that.

In my view, ectomorphs can’t do better that combing VRT, isometric and power flexing for building maximum size and strength.

Even when endeavoring to build endurance on “off days”- –those days when one isn’t doing pure strength work-- one should give serious consideration to short and explosive exercises. Hitting the heavy bag and running sprints are both good approaches.

Those less than enamored with endurance work might want to consider hard style Qi Gong movements as supplementary work. That is, incidentally, my favorite approach.
Hard style Qi Gong features a lot of smooth, low tension power flexing isometrics and VRTs.

[douglis]

Hi everyone

Douglis,

You have very Impressive results. How long do you take for each rep to gain such tension, if you dont mind me asking please?


Ian

Thanks Ian.
I don't count seconds but I think each rep takes 2-3 sec.I just imagine that I lift a very heavy weight.

[vegetus25]

Thanks for the responses, guys, I really appreciate it.

I have almost convinced myself to give HIT and possibly VRT a serious try. I recently have dropped the number of sets I perform and have added intensity to my Power Cals. The next step could be VRT.

I did years of HIT training w/ weights w/ little in the way of results, so it is hard for me to go back to a HIT type program. And when I have done max VRT training I find it harder to recover from than Power Cals. This could be because I was doing both Power Cals and VRT and the volume was what taxed my recovery. So maybe VRT by itself would work.

I think one of the problems I had w/ HIT weight training was not seeing results and thinking the cure was to keep taking more time between workouts. This just got me out of shape. If I do HIT again I will not let my time between workouts be too long. I will play w/ the other factors to help w/ recovery.

Royce,

Why don't you like Power Cals?

Thanks again everyone and God bless,

Veg

[vegetus25]

http://www.weightrainer.net/training/failure.html

I posted the above in a separate thread on John's forum, but thought I would post it here, too. What do you think of the author's ideas? My real world experience w/ HIT to failure w/ weights supports the author's conclusions for the thin guy. I think VRT training would side step some of the problems the author described for the ectos, since the strain on the joints would be much less w/ VRT training. And it is probably easier on the nervous system. Maybe this is why your students have had success w/ your HIT type programs Royce?

I wonder if VRT would be a better type system for ectos than Power Cals for the same reasons (assuming the goal was size gains), i.e. less strain on joints, no gravity to recover from, etc.? I think I am convincing myself to try VRT :)

After re-reading your posts I was wondering if by max tension sets you are talking about failure training or not? Or can you really train to failure w/ VRT/DVR? I know the amount of tension I can use decreases, but I could keep going at less tension on a VRT movement vs when training to failure against gravity (weights or Power Cals) I do hit a stopping point I can not continue beyond.

God bless,

Veg

[VRT Man]

After re-reading your posts I was wondering if by max tension sets you are talking about failure training or not? Or can you really train to failure w/ VRT/DVR? I know the amount of tension I can use decreases, but I could keep going at less tension on a VRT movement vs when training to failure against gravity (weights or Power Cals) I do hit a stopping point I can not continue beyond.


Veg,

I think of failure as something that takes place when muscles can no longer contract due to gravitational pull of the weights overcoming any ability for motion to occur. With VRT, I would just call this point maximum fatigue. Yes, tension will lessen as one approaches this point of fatigue. I would say it is intuitive for the practicioner to simply stop at this point. I think, if you have not already done so, to get the VRT Package. I cover just about everything in it. Some pick up the idea to do VRT from learning about John's DVR in his books, but in my DVD and Illustrated course, I explain it in an entirely different perspective.

--Greg Mangan

[Royce]

I think the first thing that anyone embarking on a VRT program needs to get it through his or her head is that VRT exercises, when done at near maximum tension, are HARD work.

Unfortunately, some people just cruise along without really challenging themselves. That is all too frequent a problem with VRT. So be on the lookout!

For instance, if a person who is on a HIT program can bound up a set of steps after doing his VRT squats, he isn’t working hard enough. You have to be putting out a powerful effort in order to make outstanding gains.

Obviously, a person who can’t learn to contract his muscles properly—and there are some— won’t make much progress.

VRTs resistance is isokinetic resistance minus equipment—such as an Exergenie.

Because isokinetics/VRTs don’t include eccentric—negative-- contractions, there is less muscle soreness associated with them than with other forms of progressive resistance. And another great thing about VRT resistance is that it is almost impossible to hurt yourself with them.

The problem with power cals is that once you get past ten repetitions you are starting to go past what I consider to be an optimal workload. The concept is for one to put forth a maximum effort for ten repetitions.

Let me expand upon that for the very new people who may be reading my words:

After a bit of training, most people get beyond ten repetitions with the pushups exercise. So in order to increase the work load, you have to either add some sort of external resistance or increase the repetitions. And if one wants to gain maximum size and power, I view that as a compromise. At the very least, I suggest not going beyond a single set. Do as many power cal reps that you can with the limits of a single set.

Can a person solely use power cals and progress? Yes, but, for me, I don’t consider it to be an optimal approach. I prefer isometrics, power flexing and VRTs. I’ve never been especially fond of volume approaches. They don’t work well for me.

Nevertheless, power cals provide feed back, and some people really crave that-- for a lot of different reasons. And that is why I included power cals in my original HIT program, which has served a lot of people over the past five years or so extremely well.

I might add that I do think some sort of training needs to be done on the “off days” of a HIT program, especially if one doesn’t play sports of do any kind of significant manual labor.

Certainly, an Iron Wire Set—Kung Fu exercises-- or a close facsimile of it when done at low to moderate tension can greatly enhance one’s muscle building efforts. But the Iron Wire Set is meant to be a supplementary series of exercises. It provides definition and endurance.

A couple of final thoughts:

I was a dedicated “iron head” for many, many years. I started way back in the mid sixties. In retrospect, I did a lot of stuff that really did serve me well. Although I never took chemical enhancements, I went all out to get into the “big numbers”—that’s to say that I really worked to become capable of lifting very heavy weights. And for a guy with very average genetics, I think I did pretty well. Now, at age sixty, I have other priorities, such as maintaining my health.

Outside of ego enhancement, I’m not sure all of the extremely heavy lifting was worth the effort. But it seemed so at the time.


Had circumstances been different, I might have taken a different route. If I had it to do over again, I probably would have been even more involved with the martial arts.

I believe that too many of us become too inflexible. Sometimes we become obsessive. Consider the guy who starts taking steroids for no other reason than to look good in a T shirt. To me it just doesn’t make a lot of sense. Strength is always important, but it will only take you so far. When doing my “stick and blade work” hand speed and coordination are even more important. So we all need to make compromises, I think.

And, of course, whatever approach one adopts, it needs to be fun.

[vegetus25]

Greg,

I was thinking I was going to reward myself w/ John's new book. Now I may have to get your course first. Maybe if I am a really good boy I can get both of them soon :)

Thanks for all the advice.

Royce,

I know what you mean about working hard. I can do that on the upper body exercises, but still have some trouble w/ lower body ones, but am getting there. Today I did some DVR pistols and I really felt those.

Thanks again everyone

[kenpopaul]

Royce - As ever an excellent and truly motivating piece of Wisdom!! I'm just starting to feel good again after having a bad shoulder injury and will be returning to HIT soon (already doing it for my legs).

Thanks

Kenpopaul :star:

[Royce]

Ken,

Thank you for the vote of confidence. Your words are appreciated.

Now take of that sore wing; don't do too much too quickly.

[kenpopaul]

Thanks. I'm taking it very slowly for my shoulder. Got 12 daily exercises for it from the Physio and then doing other stuff for the rest of my body. As long as I don't do (or overdo) any pushing type movement it's ok.

All the best

Kenpopaul

[Greg Newton]

Veg,

From everything you've posted here on this thread, I'd advise you to invest in Greg's program first. Also, I admire anyone who can do pistols!

[vegetus25]

Greg,

Better hold off on the admiration. I do my pistols while holding onto some overhead webbing. I try to use my legs as much as possible to complete the movement, but I know my arms are involved. But this method allows me more control w/ the movement and is still a heck of a leg workout.

[gruntbrain]

Thumbs way up for doing what it takes to get the job done; most of us aren't seeking style points & there's no shame in using a "training partner" . In general, working your joints with full ROM moves is a good thing . With some form of assitance even full ROM pistols are relatively safe.

[vegetus25]

I did a VRT back workout a couple days ago. Just a couple sets, but man, do I feel worked. It is the same feeling I use to get after a heavy iron workout. I feel it most in my shoulders which did a lot of resisting of my back muscles. Great workout!

Still having a hard time accepting that so little volume can work, but after feeling the aftermath of that workout I was thinking I might have been better off doing one set instead of two :laugh:

God bless,

Veg

[VRT Man]

Tim (peacekeeper), and Veg,

There's nothing like an iron workout, sans the iron. I'm as big and strong as I ever was, and am constantly asked, if at 57, I still work out with weights??? It appears that way to a person approaching me for the first time, and that, in and by itself, is a compliment: "you're big and strong, are you STILL lifting at 57??" Only trouble is, I don't have any of the weightlifter's "busted up" syndrome by ANY means; I can still sprint and wrestle with my sons. No back problems whatsoever. Resting heart rate of 64, blood pressure of 134/68. You'll notice, you guys, that VRT has enlivening affects, and can often give you a "glow" you didn't have before; perhaps all the 'pumping' is good for the complexion.

Greg Mangan

[Royce]

VEg,

As I have said many, many times, the secret to gaining maximum muscular size and strength is to work out briefly, intensely and infrequently. Remember I’m talking about increasing your size and strength, not endurance. While various apparatus will work, regimens incorporating VRTs/DVRs, isometrics and power flexing are superb.

Certainly, there are variables, such as training for muscle vascularity and endurance. That has a place, too, and it requires more sets and higher repetitions. But that is secondary to what we are talking about.

When doing VRT/DVR exercises for size and strength, I suggest putting forth a maximum effort for one set of ten repetitions once or twice a week for each major muscle group. If you follow that protocol, all the rest will fall into place.

If you were having your muscular output electronically monitored while doing your VRT/DVR exercises, you would find that your maximum output would vary from workout to workout. But when doing VRT/DVR exercises you are training subjectively. And that is a great advantage since it releases you from the psychological pressure of putting more weight on a bar at each workout or registering more muscular activity on a monitoring system.

With VRT/DVR you just do you just make your best effort each time that you train. This would also be true when doing power flexing and conventional isometrics.

And all of the aforementioned protocols—VRTs/DVRs, isometrics and power flexing-- are easier on one’s joints than many other forms of progressive resistance exercises. There are no weights to slip or springs to snap, so it is very easy to train alone in perfect safety.

The greatest majority of people who train with VRT/DVRs find it to be a remarkably effective protocol. But you have to learn to tense your muscle in a powerful fashion. And some people never seem to learn to do it effectively. Also, VRT/DVRs are hard work and they can cause you to develop very deep muscle fatigue. Some folks find that very disconcerting. They would rather do their pushups and pull ups. So just be aware.

[vegetus25]

Thought I would post an update.

I have been performing VRT/DVR for about a month. I really like it. The best part for me is the feeling of working the opposing muscles (for example, delts to brake a pull-up). I also like the joint friendliness of this form of exercise.

The only down side I have encountered is hitting a wall. I need to re-think my routine and either drop sets or frequency. Or there is a possibility that some DVR Push-ups I did are the cause of my burnout. These are a pretty intense exercise.

I have taken some days off and am going to start again soon. I might just start what I was doing again and not do DVR Push-ups and see how it goes. Or I might cut back as above.

I am missing Push-ups though, so I might try a mix of VRT/DVR and some Push-ups

God bless,

Veg

[douglis]

Hi Veg,
The most common problem in VRT is that the delts can be very easily overtrained.Delts are involved as antagonists(and agonists) in all back and chest VRT exercises.My advice is to stop doing direct delts training.For example,if you VRT pull-ups it's pointless(or even counterproductive) to do VRT shoulder press too.
DVR push-ups are also engage delts very much so it might be a problem.I don't perform them for long period too.

[John Peterson]

hey Guys,

There was a time when I had a very severe injury to my shoulder and I met John Mc Sweeney and learned the VRT method (that I called DVR because the way I performed it, I never visualized that I was lifting anything but instead focused directly on the contraction). I then saw Greg's VRT tape advertised and I also ordered that several years ago and performed each of the exercises every day. Bottomline: I spent one year where I did not do any Push-Ups or Pull-Ups due to the injury and yet many friends that saw me shirtless when I went diving thought that my physique looked better then ever from VRT. I trained at it daily with super intense contraction every third or fourth day. I'm convinced that VRT not only did a terrific job of sculpting my physique but I know beyond that slightest doubt that it enhanced my muscle control to the max and maximized my body's healing process. Bottom line : VRT is all gain and no pain. Once it is mastered you need nothing else. Granted there are idiots out there that argue about everything. But it doesn't matter, VRT is a Master Method it requires intelligence and a laser like focus. It builds muscles and the ability to contract and relax muscles at will because the mind is exercising the muscles directly. It is also best to master VRT before learning Isometric Contraction because it will maximize your ability to contract with an Isometric Power Belt or even free hand contractions. Believe me, if anyone really wants to learn how to contract Isometrically it is far, far better that they learn VRT first. After that Isometrics are a piece of cake. VRT is the master body building skill.

---John Peterson

[MikeNY]

John very well said it takes a big man to endorse anothers invention and Greg Mangan invented a fine system in VRT. I think VRT will still be popular in 1000 years and the training Bronzebow gives the world still popular.

[Focus]

VRT is really efficient : I have almost stopped bodyweight training for VRT (because of a shoulder pain) and my friends and I have noticed an increase in my muscle mass.

Moreover, I can train more muscle groups than in BW, I can make a workout even if I only have 20 minutes, I obtain a much bigger pump.

And when I do 100 chin ups just to remember my old sensations, the next day, I don't even feel my lats aching : so VRT prepares your muscles very efficiently for any kind of need.

Isometry can easily and safely be applied to it.

Focus

[Royce]

VRT is really efficient : I have almost stopped bodyweight training for VRT (because of a shoulder pain) and my friends and I have noticed an increase in my muscle mass.

Moreover, I can train more muscle groups than in BW, I can make a workout even if I only have 20 minutes, I obtain a much bigger pump.

And when I do 100 chin ups just to remember my old sensations, the next day, I don't even feel my lats aching : so VRT prepares your muscles very efficiently for any kind of need.

Isometry can easily and safely be applied to it.

Focus

Congratulations on your great success, and thank you for sharing your experience.
I can’t agree with you more, Focus. As I have said so many times in the past, VRT is an elegant way to train. And it is so very easy on the body that one can use this sort of training for a lifetime.

As you suggest, VRT also works very well with isometrics. Personally, I’m especially fond of “power flexing” with INTENT which I think nicely compliments VRT.

Keep training, my friend, And keep us informed about your progress!

[Focus]

Thank you Royce.

I have learnt about VRT partly from you and take many benefits from it.

I have no regret about the acquisition of G Mangan's DVD, which has been a great discovery to me. Even if I did a few adaptations to fit my needs.

[VRT Man]

Hey all,

I have read all this (I was gone for 3 days), and I can only say the REAL inventor is Universal Mind, the Mind of God. Don't want to sound prosaic here, but it has been 'discovered' or 'invented' by many, and been given many names; and each time it was new. When each discovered it, they gave it a name after their own understanding and take on it; Swoboda called it Swobodaism; McSweeney called it Tiger Moves; and an ancient Yogan gave it another name in his own vernacular. Let's just thank God that it can transform and build without anything else. Truly a discovery!

Greg Mangan

[Focus]

Just to share experience. I have learnt so much here, that a small gift is not too much.

I write a message in this topic, because I have gained quite some size in the last 2 months (period since I acquiered the VRT system DVD). Indeed I have bought T-shirts in March for Spring and Summer time. Now they are becoming too small !!! My chest and lats are squeezed. And I can hardly take them on and off.

I'll ask Greg Mangan a check with the amount of the now too small T-shirts (just kidding...).

My receipe is : mainly VRT and frequent changes :

I now work almost only with VRT, a little bit of bodyweight (to surprise the muscles from time to time), I end up my workouts with VRT isometrics and I train irregularly. For instance, this week, I have a tough work - I have a physical job - and I'll simply won't train at all (it gives rest to my muscles, and it breaks regularity).

Focus

[VRT Man]

I write a message in this topic, because I have gained quite some size in the last 2 months (period since I acquiered the VRT system DVD). Indeed I have bought T-shirts in March for Spring and Summer time. Now they are becoming too small !!! My chest and lats are squeezed. And I can hardly take them on and off.

I'll ask Greg Mangan a check with the amount of the now too small T-shirts (just kidding...).



Glad to hear I'm helping out the clothing industry by increasing their sales!! :highfive: Years ago I wore a 44" chest T-shirt. Now my chest size is XXL to XXXL. Actual chest size is now 54". All my nice old shirts are going to second-hand stores in my general area. :dazed:

--Greg Mangan

[PatCNJ]

I read the previous post of the HIT version of VRT...3 to 4 times a week, two sets per exercise. Just curious about the sets and reps you would recommend for a natural born endomorph?

As far as the quote about how one can not build any muscle training with the methods mentioned on this site...I hope to be one of the many people to prove that wrong.

Looking forward to the recommendations on the reps.

Pat

(PS: Want a nice way to finish off a VRT workout, throw in a chest push and chest pull with the power strap)

[Focus]

Now my chest size is XXL to XXXL. Actual chest size is now 54".

Oh God!!! You're a real big guy : I still buy M size clothes... But initially I am rather thin.