A Man Convinced Against His Will...

[John Peterson]

Hey Friends,


I received an e-mail from a man that is upset that he cannot convince his friend that is literally suffering from what we sometimes refer to as "Busted Up Weight Lifter Syndrome" to try our methods. He tells me that his friend is suffering from a wide range of joint and muscle injuries, is extremely overweight, and suffers from high blood pressure and other serious health issues. He wonders what insight I can offer that will help him convince his friend.

Answer: None! Now let me tell you why. When I was growing up my grandfather would flat out not argue about certain things when it came to Physical Culture, for instance, he believed strongly in natural organic food, Dynamic Tension as the Ultimate Exercise System, the Value of Sunlight, and a wide range of other natural therapies. He was adamantly against heavy weight training because as a boy growing up he saw first hand how both Oxen and Plow Horses became very heavily muscled but also how the extremely heavy work they were forced to do destroyed their joints and as a result the animals had to be put down years and years ahead of their time. He also knew the same thing would happen to human beings. This was based on his own readings on physiology and history which included a book that came out in the mid 1930's that was about the experiences that many American Black people suffered prior to the emancipation proclamation of January 1, 1863. That book outlined the experiences and hardships of human beings forced to be slaves and in some cases worked almost to death had to endure. And sure enough, the extremely heavy labor took it's toll on human beings just like it did to animals.

On several occasions Grandpa also mentioned that this was the reason that so many of the old time trainers were completely against heavy weight training. And sure enough Farmer Burns and many others were adamantly opposed to it because of what they had seen first hand that it would do.

So with all that in mind, my Grandfather taught me that first and foremost ALL Physical Culture Exercise should strengthen and protect one's joints, ligaments, and tendons. If it built strength at the long term expense of the joints, ligaments, and tendons it would ultimately cause more injury then benefit. And from the perspective of lifelong strength and fitness it was to be avoided. Today we see first hand what my Grandfather was talking about with the number of injuries produced by the wrong kind of exercise. But still, if some guy is going to argue and say that Power Calisthenics, DVR/VRT, and ISO's are a waste of time, I refuse to try to change his opinion. Why? Because Benjamin Franklin was right when he wrote, "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." Believe me, If somebody thinks they know it all, you are only wasting time in trying to convince them of anything.

---John Peterson

[kelbiz]

John;
Misplaced priorities on the weightlifters part.
Here's the reason - he has not doubt built significant muscle using his present methods.
That's nothing unusual.
Also, he has joint pain and whatever else.
So it's a case of sticking with what got him there because he's afraid to lose the muscle.
In his mind it is all justified. Probably others of the same mindset tell him the pain "goes with the territory."

In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king.:pirate:

He needs to open both eyes. He's the only one that can do it for himself.

Jack

[Greg Newton]

There is a lot of emotion that is tied to the weight training paradigm. Some of it is the emotions tied to the achievement of lifting heavy weights. As Bill Starr has said, "Strength is a greedy mistress." The more you lift, the more addictive it becomes.

Some of this emotion I blame on the advertising from the glossy muscle mags from the seventies and eighties that promised glowing health, strength, and fitness, as well as a beautiful girl in a bikini from lifting barbells.

Last, there is something missing in a person's make up; an inherent insecurity or need that is not met, that is salved by building large muscles or lifting heavy weights. I think Arthur Jones' description of bodybuilders as little boys in gorilla suits sums this up nicely.

This is not to say that weightlifting can't be a spectacular sport, or that weights aren't used legitimately for increasing athletic performance or building a stronger or beautiful body. But, I think there are some things deep in a person's psyche that keeps them from looking at the truth when they are obviously suffering from consequences from their activities.

In my opinion, if there is a better way to do it or a way to build strength or a beautiful and fit body without the wear and tear to the joints, then that is the way I choose. Personally, I spent thirty years chasing the weight training paradigm and for me it didn't feed the bulldog when it came to life long fitness.

[Andy62]

The greatest act of strength for any of us may be "the courage to change." This means overcoming the indoctinaiton that you have had and admitting that you have been wrong. There is a man that I know who is a perfect example of this concept. He was raised in a disfunctional family and as a result acquired many weakening attitudes and habits. He took up weight training to overcome his problems. In the process he became very strong physically ,but the emotional weakness remained. He said to me, "I thought if I developed the physical strength that the other weaknesses would solve themselves"- well they haven't. I have known many such people who fall into the same thought pattern. Weightlifting gave them a degree of physical strength for a period of time although at some point that strength disappears and is replaced by the injuries incurred in obtaining strength in that manner. Even when they had it ,it was not adaptable strength that could be directed at other challenges in their lives .Weights do not develop NERVE FORCE.

[gs300tx]

I think the main reason why people still lift weights when it comes to sports is because of the fast short term goals that one can acquire with them .But true strength comes when one has developed nerve force, chi, whatever you want to call it. That is why Bruce Lee is one of my role models when it comes to this. How else could a guy weighing only 145 lbs or so take on guys twice his size.

[Andy62]

The greatest strength of the next few years will be the ability to change, adapt, and evolve. That is the unique strength that of all the creatures God gave to mankind. On this forum we are learning the way to develop it. The greatest sport and the greatest game again becomes the game of life itself. All other forms of competition become insignificant and boring.

[John Peterson]

Hey Guys,

I appreciate every post from each of you in this thread. And I'm glad that each of you understands why I feel that arguing about the merits of our training system with someone that has their mind totally closed to it is an exercise in futility. Our methods are for men and women that truly want to develop every facet of their being and not just their physical bodies alone. And as our good friend Gordon has so eloquently stated, and continues to state, developing one's NERVE FORCE to the maximum is the Golden Key to giving one's self the best possible present and future.

Now let me also state something that you may not be aware of that should be considered when contemplating what Gordon has stated about weight lifting not developing NERVE FORCE in the way that our methods do. It has to do with pain. And in this instance I mean physiological pain. If one is following an exercise method that causes over stress, pain, and compression, he or she is literally draining their NERVE FORCE and dissipating it rather than concentrating and building it. Pain is a neurological drain to one's NERVE FORCE and over time it will weaken a person in more ways than they can imagine and make one all the more vulnerable to everyday stresses.

In fact, One of the reasons that so many people are experiencing so much fear and anxiety is because they have always been taught that the answers to everything are outside of themselves. That my friends is a trap for fools. consider what Carl Jung wrote that underscores what we teach. "Who looks outside dreams; who looks inside, awakes. " I could not agree more with that statement.


---John Peterson

[Alan_OldStudent]

I use bodyweight, expanders, weights, visualization, DVR, isometrics and nerve force. I love them all and if done sensibly they all work.

There's no one path that's valid for everyone, and your post makes that point clear.

Weights aren't right for me, but I trust you to know what's good for you. I'm confident your system suits your needs.

That word "sensibly" is the key. That all fits into the spirit of John's posts in this thread.


Regards,

Alan

[ben alexander]

There is a lot of emotion that is tied to the weight training paradigm. Some of it is the emotions tied to the achievement of lifting heavy weights. As Bill Starr has said, "Strength is a greedy mistress." The more you lift, the more addictive it becomes.

Some of this emotion I blame on the advertising from the glossy muscle mags from the seventies and eighties that promised glowing health, strength, and fitness, as well as a beautiful girl in a bikini from lifting barbells.

Last, there is something missing in a person's make up; an inherent insecurity or need that is not met, that is salved by building large muscles or lifting heavy weights. I think Arthur Jones' description of bodybuilders as little boys in gorilla suits sums this up nicely.

This is not to say that weightlifting can't be a spectacular sport, or that weights aren't used legitimately for increasing athletic performance or building a stronger or beautiful body. But, I think there are some things deep in a person's psyche that keeps them from looking at the truth when they are obviously suffering from consequences from their activities.

In my opinion, if there is a better way to do it or a way to build strength or a beautiful and fit body without the wear and tear to the joints, then that is the way I choose. Personally, I spent thirty years chasing the weight training paradigm and for me it didn't feed the bulldog when it came to life long fitness.


Great post!

Watching TV the other day, I saw an interview with the actress / model / pop singer Grace Jones. You may remember her from Conan the Destroyer, and the Bond Movie "A View To A Kill". She's now in her 60s, but looks like a woman half her age. Naturally, the interviewer asked her the secret to her health.

She talked about keeping fit through swimming and yoga, but also mentioned that, in the 80s and early 90s, she worked out with weights and followed a strict regime.

She then explained that excessive exercise, like lifting heavy weights, causes problems. Having dated Karate man Dolph Lundren (no stranger to the gym!), and strongmen like Sven-Ole Thorsen, she said that today, these men suffer from joint pains because of the hours they spent in the gym lifting very heavy weight. The body is not designed to lift massive weights all the time. Grace herself has some joint aches due to an over-strict regime.

I thought that was very interesting - especially as she intimated (without mentioning names)that the likes of gym-obsessed celebs like Madonna are going to pay the price for trying to stay super-fit. You may not like her music or her acting, but Ms Jones is a very clever lady.


Ben (Slave to the Rhythm!)

[Big Bear]

Hi John,

That last response,'knocked it out of the park' for me. What you and Gordon have talked about,and others included is the intentional use of the Nerve Force-sometimes I will use qi,etc...

What happens with Transformetrics is that you in a sense are right here in the moment-FULLY! When I lifted before-years ago it was as if I was supposed to ignore a natural warning sign,PAIN.We have written many times before that the old adage,'no pain,no gain'only leads to being 'busted up'!

When you concentrate and intentionaly engage 'Nerve Force' you are fully in the moment aware of all things in and out of your body(awareness of space,location,etc...).By definition you are aware of any pain response and modify accordingly-you do not'push through the pain',which left many of us here-busted up.

Well you know I am going to add the next step and that is that when we become acutely aware of our intrinsic energy and what is going on body/mind/spirit we reach a point where we also-Live More Fully.

The subtle nuances of the rose;color,texture,smell are so much more profound and HERE.A gentle walk in the forest becomes your feet kissing Mother Earth as you walk.The view of the world becomes gratitude, to have yet one more moment to be here with you,with me,with all on this Sacred Earth.

We enjoy our workouts as we are here with it-totally.After all being here totally-isn't that when we really experience the 'marrow of life'?

peace,
jason

[gruntbrain]

The broken down plow, heavily muscled horses are examples of what overtraining with any style can do; they should have "worked out" for about 20 minutes per day

[Andy62]

The evidence continues to build.

[tom]

is extremely overweight, and suffers from high blood pressure and other serious health issues.

It sounds like he isn't doing anything anymore. It's too bad, but it's his life. I agree, no point arguing. If someone asks, it's ok to offer one's own experience and knowledge, but as soon as the other resists, there is no point going any further. Just smile, nod, and wish them all the best.

It also sounds like other things are going on, depression or such. Those are tough problems.

Wait, be empathetic, but don't get hooked.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't get him to write anything intelligent on a keyboard.

Tom

[Greg Newton]

With this kind of routine, I'm no John Peterson, but I'm in the best shape I've ever been in in my life. This stuff really works, even with a routine that most on this forum would consider Transformetrics-light!

Sometimes when we read about the successes and achievements of others here, we think that we need to be doing the same. No, no and no. Sometimes less is best, and sometimes due to other life considerations our workouts are very brief and are for maintenance. Anyone who takes up this style of training, whether for general health or to the other end of of the spectrum for elite fitness, that person is a hero. The reason being; you want change. And, not only do you want change, but you are willing to discipline yourself to change. So George and Jo, I want to commend you for what you've accomplished. It is inspiring to me.

[MikeNY]

Been watching this thread, and reading. Excellent is an understatement.

Pierini there is always the exception to the rule; I sincerly hope that is you. Best wishes my friend.

[Alan_OldStudent]

After further reflection, I realize that what I originally posted could be misunderstood by those who read it as suggesting I am against the training protocols advocated here.

Nothing could be further from the truth, but I have removed it nonetheless.

Have a great day!

I didn't get that picture at all. I got the idea that you have great respect for JP and his methods and feel you have benefited from this forum, JP himself, and the methods he advocates. You have been entirely respectful to us all.

You said you are trying something different that is more suited to you personally and to your goals.

No one way is right for everyone, and I'm sure you will continue to refine and develop what's right for you.

I personally am turned off the other forum by the venom and unfair personal attacks by some of the people there, so I won't be seeing much of you there. But I do have your website bookmarked and will always be interested in what you are doing. Moreover, for me, Transformetrics works well and I intend on sticking with it.

Once again, best wishes.

Regards,

Alan

[revwally]

Pierini,

Look at your blog on occasion and enjoyed the read. I have also enjoyed your input. You seem to have a balanced approach that is working for you, and that is what matters when talking about fitness.

I added in this stuff to my workout -- and love it. But I also do other things as well.

Oly lifting can be great. You have to have a great deal of flexibility and strength combined. It is also much more technical than powerlifting. Both have had OF's continue to do them for years.

I understand your change in personal philosophy, and thank you for the wisdom that you have added to this group.

The fact that you acknowledge both your indebtedness to John, and your growth in another direction as leading you to not want to cause difficulty here shows how much of a gentleman you are.

If you have the time, try to still stop in from time to time, just to say hi.

wally