Qi Gong and VRT - My Version

[VRT Man]

Qi Gong is more or less an ancient relative of VRT, and I have combined the two to make an exciting, muscle-building, breath-taking exercise that has moved me to a high energy plane.

First of all, I stand in a horse-stance, and move all my muscles around in various directions, including the knee joints and thigh muscles, under COMPLETE FLEXION as hard as possible.

I move the arms in a bowstring-pulling fashion (as an archer would), then raise them skyward under tension, and lower the two of them in a pull-up fashion, under tension; and with stomach sucked in, I flex and twist my torso, as though writhing and dancing fashionably to a rock 'n' roll song; I close my outstretched arms in in front of my chest, and cross them, then move them back out behind me and then downward, all under tension; I move my head around under tension of a flexed neck; and finally do pretend-curls and tricep presses under tension, but only a few times, always moving and writhing around, ALWAYS under tension.

If a person were to watch me doing this, it would look somewhat strange, so I often do it alone; but within a minute of doing this, I am out of breath, panting, and need to take a break. All muscles in the body have been moved under tension, and the exercise is exhilarating and will make you feel years younger when done on a regular basis.

Greg Mangan

[MikeNY]

Greg an interesting concept VRT Qigong. The blending of two worlds.

[Andy62]

Greg, The way that I look at it we are just talking about tapping into universal law. You have done it just as Alois P. Swoboda did it and some Indian Yogi did it 5,000 years ago. Enlightened people have discovered these same principles thoughout human history and expressed them within the framework of their culture and applied them to mind/body control, the marital arts, or adapting to a changing economy, or society. All true power comes from within. Great job and congratulations to both you and John Peterson in expressing and promoting this power in a current, relevent, and non mystical way.

"Within everyone one of us is an 'evolutionary success principle' placed there by the creator to help us survive and succeed in an ever changing universe...........
The exercises, as you know, are merely the vehicle by means of which the nervous system is aroused to greater activity through the intense application of the mind in producing resistance and rigidity of the muscles....I have now given you enough instructions for stressing your Conscious Energy through exercising to yield ultimately for you such results as you desire"

Alois P. Swoboda

[GB]

Greg,

Could this be leading to a new and expanded DVD?

GB

[gruntbrain]

Strength endurance fans can productively add this to their training . As usual, I'd advise to at least initially to monitor your heart rate . With the monitoring as a guide you can perform VRT moves nonstop for several minutes(albeit less intense ones than Greg described)

[Andy62]

We all have our own individual history and experience with various forms of exercise. I had come across the Atlas Course as a pre-adolescent which was my intital introduction to varous forms of resistance and mind/body exercise in the form of Dynamic Tension. In addition to that as a teenager I seriously broke both the radius and the ulna bones in my left forearm, each in two places, which had to be surgically pinned and in an immovable cast for a number of months. The surgeon had me isometrically contract my muscles to keep them strong even during the time that my arm was in the cast. Inspite of these early experiences; I really didn't come across what I consider to be the most useful application of DVR/VRT and Isometrics until I was almost 40 years old and facing what seemed like insurmountable challenges in both my personal and business life. At the time I came across these same exercise principles that John Peterson and Greg Mangan are teaching in yoga and the martial arts. I found myself getting complete control of my mind and my emotions to the point where even today I can change my emotions on the spot and at will in a crisis situation. I believe in the world that we all are are currently facing, with it's rapid and unpredicabale changes, that this application of these principles, for most of us, will be even more valuable than the physical benefits. That is how Alois P. Swoboda applied them in the late 1800s and early 1900s during another period of great change - the industrial revolution. They develop the NERVE FORCE and give you the courage to take reasonable risks so you can live the adventuous, unique, and authentic life that I believe is the only way that God meant for all of us to live.

[MikeNY]

Greg it need not just be Kung fu movements nor Qigong movements, I've used Boxing and Bare Knuckle Boxing movements with muscular tension. Gordon is right universal truths keep being rediscovered lets not lose VRT keep it alive and growing. In a world of deminishing expectionations VRT fills a dramtic need, think of the school in the Emerging World, VRT is a God send.

[gruntbrain]

At a minimum, self tension resistance should be applied to all joints systematically from neck to ankle for the joint health of it. Apply all the self tension you can safely muster using a variety of safe planes & ranges of motion

Such use of self resistance is at a minimum an excellent way to warmup for other activities

[Andy62]

"The mind is everything."
Buddha

[bennyb]

I have done this a few times myself. Using Qi Gong movements and flexing throughout the movements. It feels incredible and it just consumes the body with internal power and its Miuscle Control at its best.

[Kristian]

I'm new but I came across a book by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming that had a form by Da Mo (Da Mo Wai Dan) that provides excellent strength in the upper body by doing twelve forms which is incredible. I am currently waiting on my G.U.T.S. which I cannot wait to experiment with soon. Does anyone know how to incorporate Qi Gong with the legs?

[MikeNY]

The Monks use to preform a deep horse riding posture, several hours per day. I take it you are referring to the I Chin Ching Muscle Change Classic that Bodhidharma Ta-Mo taught to the Shaolin Monks. Plus kicking exercises alone would build strength and flexibility. The Japanese also practive various high tension muscle Karate exercise movements.

[gruntbrain]

From my limited perspective, Qi Gong emphasizes deep breathing & visualizations with formalized movement. These movements build neuro-connections(mind/muscle) so that once established, VRT sessions are more productive - ie first perform the visualized breathing moves with no resistance( a prerequisite or at least a warmup) then add in the resistance component

[Andy62]

When The Menninger Foundation completed their study of Yogis in the 1970s their final conclusion and definition of Yoga was,"get into a relaxed state and visualize the desired bodily result." Add movement and tension to that and you have the basis of this form of exercise by whatever name you call it. .

[Kristian]

Does anyone if the exercises are performed this way using Qi Gong could cause chi stagnitation (chi blocking)? I heard that one needs to becareful when practicing Qi Gong to build the muscles, any ideas?

[sillypup]

Tension the body while doing slow movement is part of wing chun training as I know it base on my understanding of that martial art. I'm sure others do it too. it's internal training to build cultivating of energy power for self defense. different method of training from qi kung due to different goal results. qi gong is more for health and cultivation of energy flow. of course many system incorporate the energy aspects for self defense such as aikido and tai chi. it wouldn't be authentic martial art without the energy aspect otherwise it's just exercise or physical self defense. somehow most system only teach the energy aspects when one is in blackbelt level. why is that? it's because one have to train one's body to be strong to handle the energy flow and proper body mechanics. if one's body can't handle it, one can hurt oneself.

one can not do just any movement with chi kung. there is order of natural movements so energy flow and not get stagnant. one can't just make movements out of the blue. there have to be experience and understanding of the basics through practice. usually meditation is practice as well to improve one's sensitivity to energy flow and proper cultivation.

also, tension of movements while moving isn't considered qi kung in my opinion as qi kung is usually done without hard tension but in relax body. those tension of muscle are other kind of internal training. tension blocks energy flow. key is to balance the energy flow in body. qi gong is movement with the breath and mind intent so energy flow. Even though many shaolin practices have postures that tense the muscles, the main key is breathing and being relax as much as possible even if the body naturally get tense due to posture. tensing the body is not one of the principles of gi gong.

this is just my experience and opinion of qi kung. tension contradict purpose of energy flow. mixing and matching contradictory principles just isn't effective. if you must learn two systems. do them separately. this is how systems get diluted. mixing around different systems that contradict. as you know, they do that a lot these days with martial arts systems. hence dilution of pure essence of martial arts. purpose of qi kung is energy flow. I wouldn't do qi kung with tension or call it qi kung. adding tension purposely is probably mixing with physical martial arts in the past from different teachers. foundation wise qi gong is practice without tension and mind intent of relaxation. I wouldn't want to practice qi kung purposely tensing the muscles. I've tried and it's not qi kung to me as tension blocks off qi flow. tension can be used to train one's mind and cultivation of qi and other aspects of internal training but not when one is training for qi flow which is one of the principle essence of qi kung.

standing qi gong forms work out the legs as it include energy flow from top of head to toes.

qi gong is booming in the west now. i just don't like the fact that many people misunderstand it's essence. they are mixing up many systems and principles. this is due to teachers trying to create their own niche. if you learn qi kung. stick with one that don't mix systems. you will go deeper that way with your practice. after one is competent then one will understand why it's best to not mix practices of physical and internal. you can do both practice separately but don't mix them into one practice. that will impede your results and may harm you. Usually one do physical training to strengthen the body separate from qi kung training according to the shaolin monks. they separate the training for a reason.

I wouldn't call what greg suggest a qi gong practice as full tension isn't one of the principles of chi kung due to contradiction of principle of energy flow. It is a good exercise none the less though for health. chi kung isn't just about movements which many people who get into such practice confuse the true purpose of energy flow. deep breathing, mind intent, energy flow, movement, relaxation should all be balance in one's qi kung practice.

[VRT Man]

Hey, sillypup, thanks for a more accurate version of Qi gong. The movements are more flowing and incorporate all somatic flexors and extensors, and thus resembled (in image only) a martial art or yogan movement; I shall no longer call it Qi Gong and VRT, just a more graceful yet dance-like approach to visualized resistance. "A rose by any other name is still a rose." (Shakespeare.) I've never read Harry Wong's "Dynamic Tension" [which was since renamed due to copyright infringement with the Atlas course;] but move his 'flowing isometrics' into a Balinese dance mode, and there you have it.

Greg Mangan
VRT Man

[MikeNY]

Greg your method is very close to several ways taught by Japanese, Korean and Chinese Masters. Anyone who as ever seen Mas Oyama's school and it's teaching of Ibuki, Nogare 1, Nogare 2 breathing techniques as well as formal exercises will instantly see the same muscle tension. There are two differnt methods used by the Inner and Outer Schools, Shaolin and Karate is the hard Outer (and they do teach the softer methods) but they teach muscle tension exercises and much of Qigong comes from Shaolin Ssu Kempo. The I Chin Ching, Muscle Change Classic, that Bodhidharma taught to the Monks is the core teaching of Shaolin and it is a muscle tension teaching.

Greg I think you are onto something, something good.

[Kristian]

Hey MikeNY,

I agree with your words and I too feel that Greg is onto something as well. The Wai Dan exercises that I mentioned earlier do follow the same recipe with using the mind and imagination combined with the in and out breath to focus the specific contraction in the muscle or groups of muscle by building chi or ki (energy) in the specific area. I used it when I injured my shoulder at work and it provided me with both power and protecting with only doing five forms out of the twelve.

Kris

[MikeNY]

Hi Kristian: Anyone who has seen either a Kung fu or Karate expert doing exercises using dynamic muscle tension that make all thier muscles standout, almost like a bodybuilding pose will remember that.

I'd thought the Wei Dan exercises were many times just thought, a friend discussed this with me, as an example doing situps but just visualing the situps not actually doing them and after testing the visualized exercise has benifits, nearly as much as real situps.

[Kristian]

Hey MikeNY,

Your right its all drven by thought or in other words VRT. The hand positions are for the newbies to Qi Gong because many people are unable to have the focus so it just makes it easier for him/her at a beginner level. The Qi Gong masters don't need to do anything but move their chi with thought.

[MikeNY]

Yes Kristian in the end it is meditation. Funny the stillness and peace that opens also opens the doors to real Chi and Qigong. I saw a Shaolin Ssu master drive his finger into a real brick, in the middle, passed it around, drove his forefinger into it on the outside where it was undamaged. Might have gone 2" or 3" into the brock. He did not have hardened hands was into the meditative aspect and believed in Chi. Seeing was believing.

PS Greg had it right in the beginning! Qigong and VRT are made for each other.

[Kristian]

Hey this might be a dumb question and on the wrong forum but what is the difference between VRT and DVR exercises?

Hey MikeNY the exercise forms that I was telling about are exactly like what you are describing with DVR exercises. Are these exercises that you can create yourself?

[MikeNY]

VRT & DVR are both what I'd call moving Isometrics, muscle tension. DVRs use the Chinese Tiger Moves and other methods, and VRT simulates the movements of weight lifting.

Kristian I think you can create your own DVR exercises and they will work. Look at what John and Greg did and once you learn the principles you can invent your own exercises.