Exercise short, intense and frequently.

[JoeJustice]

I know there is a lot of discussion on over training and exercise length and regularity. Well, I read today that brief, intense and frequent is the way to go in an exercise routine.

Testosterone production ceases after 27 minutes of starting an intense workout (on average) and cortisol production beings. The further past the testosterone mark and the more into cortisol production the worse off you'll be. Also keeping with a shorter routine, say 30 minutes, you have more time to recover and can and should thus train daily.

I think this particularly applies to our training style since it doesn't do excessively damage to the tissue of the body. 30 minutes daily, of heart thumping exercise might just be the best way to go.

Thoughts?

-Joe

[Hank_Z]

Hey Joe,

Thanks for information. It's very interesting.

Can you please provide a link to the info...assuming it's online? I'd like to read the article.

Cheers!

Hank

[Bruno]

Brief, intense and INfrequent is the way some including the HIT jedi suggest. Others say the same based on the need for rest. Sometraining other systems or articles may not be reliable because the athlete's recovery is enhanced by steroids. Frequent is fine if you have enough time to recuperate.

[divebomber]

Joe and Pierini, I think the term which creates some disagreement in your views is "intensity" because there are ambiguous definitions.

In HIT terminology, "intense" means until muscular failure. Seen this way, Intensity and frequency really contradict each other, unless the specific short-term goal is to enter into controlled overtraining in order to reap more spectacular supercompensation adaptations once a longer rest period is taken.

Another definition of "intense" is close to your 1 rep max (at least 80% of it), though not necessarily close to failure. E. g. you take a movement where your personal best is about 5 reps with perfect form, but you only do 2 reps and then you're done for the workout (doing 10 successive sets of 2 will still fry your muscles and CNS, as I just found out on my EDT spree). That would be the essence of Pavel's GTG, and I think this system CAN work on a daily basis (even several times a day) AS LONG AS your joints and tendons are up to it. Muscular and CNS recuperation is not the weak link any more when training this way.

[Royce]

As I gracefully age, I now train less often and with more intensity with more rest between training days. I am a low rep person trying to move heavier loads with more explosiveness. I am no longer a steady-state runner or a regular runner for that matter, but when I do run its with maximum intensity for short distances. When I am brave, I'll try 500 meters on the rowing machine as fast as I can which takes about 1:45. That's a complete intense workout in my opinion.

My volume days are a thing of the past and so is daily training; consequently, my strength endurance is not what it use to be. I believe I have more power now than before. Thank God I have detailed training journals to reflect on the good old days.

Muscles need time to recover. Recovery is when all the benefits of intense exercise are realized.

I have zero interest in hypertrophy-oriented training or bodybuilding, so there's no need for me to train daily. You can't train with maximum effort daily and expect to achieve maximum results.

That's how I now see it.


Pierini,

Sure sounds like HIT to me!:soldier:

[tom]

Yeah, exercise short and intense, I discovered that after being told about it for a long time and not ready to hear, too. Welcome aboard.

27 minutes to a half hour is unnecessary in my opinion. I believe 20 is fine.

As for the frequency, watch out. If the workout is intense, the worked muscle may need plenty of time to rest. Other muscles may be ready to go, though, making daily work-outing possible, if that is what you feel like doing.

Keep it up,
Tom

[JoeJustice]

divebomber,

Good point on the word "intense". I'm thinking intense in terms of the cardiovascular system not muscular failure. For example, doing 20 minutes of squats as fast as you can. I think that would be intense and hard, but it wouldn't bring you anywhere near muscular failure.

So when I say "intense" I mean moving from one exercise to the next and keeping your heart rate up.

-Joe

[Hank_Z]

As Royce posted, this is HIT.

Divebomber, thanks for the explanation of what "intense" means in HIT. That was extremely helpful.

Gruntbrain frequently reminds us to ask this question when we're talking about variables of reps, intensity, frequency, rest between sets, etc: "What are the desired results?" Seems like each of us should first decide the results we want and then choose a program tailored to get those results.

Royce graciously provided me with a HIT workout program. I haven't yet used it. The question I didn't ask about HIT and can ask now is this:

What are the expected results from using a HIT program? Strength, muscle size, endurance, muscle definition, strength through ranges of motion, help with weight loss, bulking up, etc.?

Hank

P.S. Besides not knowing the expected results from HIT, the other reason I haven't yet used it is that I have a "need" to work out every day...unless my body clearly is too tired. The reason? I'm very much a creature of habit. If I work out one day, I "automatically" want to work out the next day.:act-up: And so on. But if I don't exercise one day, I'm much less likely to work out the next day.:sad:

[gruntbrain]

Heartrate monitoring is one way to get a somewhat objective measure of intensity.

I still do steady state cardio arm assisted squats( roughly 30/min) for 20 minutes but lately I add a minute or two of much faster paced squats at the end of my session. This is roughly equivalent to running at an 8min/mile pace for 20 then "sprinting" at a 6 min/mile pace for the last couple of minutes.

One reason for performing the steady cardio phase is such sessions are meditative where I can focus on deep breathing without the distraction of muscle pain from intense work.

[divebomber]

Joe, you have come up with yet another definition of intensity. Talk about ambiguous...

I have burned out several time already trying to do high intensity interval training more often than 2-3 times per week... so if you want to go for daily cardio, I would rather suggest a steady-state activity (which the 20 min squat session you have suggested may very well be). Hats off to you for being able to endure this without approaching muscular failure...

Hank, whereas traditional "HIT Jedis" generally claim that HIT training is the one-stop solution for EVERYTHING the training establishment sees it as a method primarily geared at increasing max strength, because the training volume is too low to elicit an optimal hypertrophy response. Almost ten years ago I did HIT with weights for some time, and I've never lifted heavier, although I'm more muscular today.

But you shouldn't confuse the traditional HIT with weights as proposed by Mentzer and Darden with Royce's method. Using mostly self resistance (DVR/powerflex/overcoming isometrics) makes it virtually impossible to reach concentric failure, because with the accumulation of fatigue, muscle tension will gradually decrease. Royce advises to go for max tension in each and every rep, and terminate the set after about ten reps (although you may be able to squeeze out ten more reps, but with gradually decreasing tension).

Some forum members have reported great size gains using this method. But many (including myself) are too hooked on their daily fitness fix to give it a serious trial run.

[JoeJustice]

Hmmmm, let me define what I'm talking about when I say "intense exercise". I'm talking about circuit style training, moving from one exercise to the next with little rest in between. So I'm not talking about going to muscular failure, I'm kind of talking about interval training as in anaerobic, but using the entire body.

So, say, going from pull-ups to push-ups to crunches to squats without rest in between. Then take a short break and do it all over again. You get an anaerobic effect from all of the different muscles working, but you don't go to muscular failure. I consider it "intense" but not in the same way HIIT is "intense".

I'm going to try this for a few weeks and see what happens. My plan is 30 minutes of this type of training, six days a week.

-Joe

[gruntbrain]

Joe
Try pushing it with ZERO rest

[Greg Newton]

Hey Joe,

Circuits is how I normally train. You can get in a good bit of volume in a short time, and without overtaxing your system. If you did your circuits and then chose five or six DVR, ISO, or DSR exercises to follow in single set HIT fashion, you can cover the best of both worlds.

[Royce]

For a very significant number of people, HIT is ideal for building maximum size and strength. Hit is especially appropriate for developing explosive power and muscle endurance.

It is probably not well suited for someone who wants to train for running marathons—although a number of HIT aficionados do run marathons.

HIT generates the sort of explosive power one usually associates with sprinters on a track team or a power running backs on a football team.

Weight loss issues are often far more complex than many of us would like to believe. But I believe that HIT will be as effective as any other exercise regimen for helping one reduce.

In sum, HIT can be the key to developing extreme musculature that is accompanied by great explosive strength.

[Alan_OldStudent]

I'm hardly an expert on this, but it seems to me that there is no one "best way." The best way for a particular individual depends on that individual's age, sex, goals, physical condition, psychology, etc.

One can work from general principles, use a bit of intuition, and invest the necessary time and patience in developing the best program for that particular individual.

In the process of developing that type of program, it is useful to see how others have approached this question. To me, that's one of the real benefits of this forum. One can see informed discussion and debate.

Regards,

Alan

[Bruno]

Joe, in your last post you responded with two i's in HIT that's a different protocol. If it was a typo, then skip this info. If not, maybe its useful.

HIIT High-Intensity Interval Training
HIT High Intensity Training

High Intensity Training (HIT) is a form of strength training popularized in the 1970s by Arthur Jones, the founder of Nautilus. The training focuses on performing quality weightlifting repetitions to the point of momentary muscular failure. The training takes into account the number of repetitions, the amount of weight, and the amount of time the muscle is exposed to tension in order to maximize the amount of muscle fiber recruitment.

The fundamental principles of High Intensity Training (HIT) are that exercise should be brief, infrequent, and intense. Exercises are performed with a high level of effort, or intensity, where it is thought that it will stimulate the body to produce an increase in muscular strength and size. Advocates of HIT believe that this method is superior for strength and size building than most other methods which, for example, may stress lower weights with larger volume (reps).

HIIT High Intensity Interval Training

High-intensity interval training (HIIT) or sprint interval training is an exercise strategy that is intended to improve performance with short training sessions. HIIT is a form of cardio which is beneficial to burning fat in a short and intense workout. Usual HIIT sessions may vary from 15-30 minutes. Most HIIT sessions have a 2:1 ratio in terms of time. For example, for running, your HIIT session may be something like 60 seconds jog, 30 seconds sprint.

An example of a HIIT session may be as follows: Use this scale of 1-10 (1 being a casual walk and 10 being sprinting as hard you can) to help clarify the intensity level of the run. For this exercise, it is most efficient if it is done on a track or at least outdoors instead of on a treadmill. Begin with a five minute warm up jog at about a 4-5 followed by a couple of minutes of stretching. Then start with a jog at about a 5-6 intensity level for 60 seconds and then sprint at an 8-9 intensity level for 30 seconds. Repeat this cycle 6-8 times depending on how fit you are (Beginners should limit themselves to 6 cycles and more advanced HIIT users should strive for 8 cycles). Your HIIT session will look something like this: Jog (level: 5-6, 60 seconds) then Sprint (level: 8-9, 30 seconds), Jog (level: 5-6, 60 seconds) then Sprint (level: 8-9, 30 seconds), Jog (level: 5-6, 60 seconds) then Sprint (level: 8-9, 30 seconds), Jog (level: 5-6, 60 seconds) then Sprint (level: 8-9, 30 seconds), Jog (level: 5-6, 60 seconds) then Sprint (level: 8-9, 30 seconds), Jog (level: 5-6, 60 seconds) then Sprint (level: 8-9, 30 seconds). After you complete your cycle, you should also have a cool down run to help your heart rate return to normal.

A HIIT session involves a warmup period, several short, maximum-intensity efforts separated by moderate recovery intervals, and a cooldown period. The period of alternating effort and recovery intervals typically lasts a total of 15 minutes. HIIT is an excellent way to maximize your workout if you are limited on time as well.

Studies by Tabata[1], Tremblay[2] and others have shown this method to be more effective at burning fat and maintaining, or building, muscle mass than high-volume, lower intensity aerobic work-outs. A study by Gibala et al[3] demonstrated 2.5 hours of sprint interval training produced similar biochemical muscle changes to 10.5 hours of endurance training and similar endurance performance benefits. According to a study by King [4] , HIIT increases the resting metabolic rate (RMR) for the following 24 hours due to excess post-exercise oxygen consumption, and may improve maximal oxygen consumption (VO2 max) more effectively than doing only traditional, long aerobic workouts.[5][6][7][8] Long aerobic workouts have been promoted as the best method to reduce fat, as fatty acid utilization usually occurs after at least 30 minutes of training. HIIT is somewhat counter intuitive in this regard, but has nonetheless been shown to burn fat more effectively. There may be a number of factors that contribute to this, including an increase in RMR, and possibly other physiological effects.


Intense as a descriptive word may mean many things however in terms of the world of fitness it is most often associated with the above described methodologies.

I now use intense in a bastardized version of not going to failure routinely but I will try to go for max reps on pull ups or push ups occasionally.

[JoeJustice]

Geeze, I didn't realize the word "intense" could cause such intense confusion! But then with HIIT and HIT being actual protocols, I should have known better.

The second I was a typo. I actually do mean "intense" as in HIIT.

Maybe I'll use the word "obdurate"? Even though that word has a bit of a negative connotation.

Exercise with short, obdurate, sessions frequently. How does that sound? I'll make up my own protocol and call it "SOFT" (short, obdurate, frequency training).

-Joe

[tony84]

Very true Royce. I think HIT training is the best way to build muscle size, but thats just my opinion. I think what some people forget or dont know, and i dont mean people on this forum, but HIt training is training to where you cannot do another rep in PERFECT FORM. I think there are a lot of people out there who think that going to muscle failure means you push yourself until you cant do another rep no matter what. When i do my HIt routine i could push out another rep probably but it would be in very sloppy form, and thats never good. I think anyone starting a HIT routine should keep thats in mind.

Tony

[Andy62]

Many consider Arthur Saxon the greatest weightlifter of all time.


http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Competition/Saxon/DPP/dpp01.htm#4

[Huskerdarren]

I really agree. Making the most of a 30 minute workout can yield wonderful results. I hear a lot of people say they don't have time to go to the gym, but I generally do not agree that this is the real reason. In the time it would take me to drive to Gold's (where I used to belong), park the car, check in and then drive home, I could be done with a workout in my basement. It comes down to prioritizing a small block of time and then getting it done as a habit or lifestyle. With ISOs, DVRS and DSRs, the excuse of not having equipment goes out the window too. Did I mention it is free? Wow, the benefits greatly outweigh any perceived disadvantage.

[xenonomicon]

My main forms of training now is isometric power flex's and walking. Just one brief but intense contraction gets the job done and can be done daily. The workout last a maximum of 15 minutes. Just focusing on this one form of exercise I can tell that it works, my muscle have begun to fillout becoming more well rounded. As for raw strength that has increased greatly.

[Hank_Z]

My main forms of training now is isometric power flex's and walking. Just one brief but intense contraction gets the job done and can be done daily. The workout last a maximum of 15 minutes. Just focusing on this one form of exercise I can tell that it works, my muscle have begun to fillout becoming more well rounded. As for raw strength that has increased greatly.

Interesting! About how long have you been doing the 15 minutes or so of isometric power flexes?

Have you ever tried doing them while walking? If so, what results did you have?

Hank

[Hank_Z]

...Testosterone production ceases after 27 minutes of starting an intense workout (on average) and cortisol production beings. The further past the testosterone mark and the more into cortisol production the worse off you'll be. Also keeping with a shorter routine, say 30 minutes, you have more time to recover and can and should thus train daily.

I think this particularly applies to our training style since it doesn't do excessively damage to the tissue of the body. 30 minutes daily, of heart thumping exercise might just be the best way to go...

-Joe

I really like this thread that Joe started.:highfive: The discussion about what produces the best workout has been informative to me.

Also, I'm looking at this from the opposite direction. For most of the past 8 years...but not all the time...I've had extremely low testosterone levels. Let's just say that some of the consequences are not positive ones.

I'm wondering whether daily "heart-thumping exercise" of about 30 minutes might help my body produce significantly more testosterone.

Any thoughts?

Hank

[xenonomicon]

About two months now. My life and work can get busy really fast. So making time to get a long workout in is nearly impossible some times. Even just using isoflexing I seem to get a better quality workout in less time. I read on wikipedia that isometric increase a muscles maximum contration power by 32% compaired to 5% of dynamic exercise. Big plus to me. Let's face it, you stress a muscle in becomes larger and stronger. What better way that isometric contractions. Dynamic exercises make a muscle larger through the pump and isometrics build muscle size through increased density.

[JoeJustice]

Hank,

Others can weigh in, but I believe interval training would be best for boosting good hormones like HGH and Testosterone. That is training less than 30 minutes and alternating between activities at the maximum ability and easy activities or what is sometimes called active rest. For example, sprinting for a minute followed by 2 minutes or walking. Bruno has a really good description of interval training earlier in this thread, called HIIT.

You can achieve this effect with push-ups, squats, pull-ups, etc. It doesn't have to be running.

One thing you should bare in mind for us larger folks. And John explained to me, belly fat stores estrogen (man boobs anyone?). And you'll need to burn through all of that fat before you'll see your testosterone really kick in. I know, it's sucks! I've been there. So don't get too discouraged at some slow progress at first. Keep up with your training and diet and everything will eventually kick in.

-Joe

[tom]

Joe's right. The HGH activation has been out for a while. First it was anecdotal, with the 20-rep squat workout, etc. Recently research has verified it. Lactic buildup plays a part.

It is possible to get the intensity without the legs, but it's hard. For the same reason the legs are the most painful and exhausting, it is the same reason they are the most bang for the buck. But for us who can't take such intensity, hard work, we can do the same protocol with other muscles. It's important to build up the lactic acid, and that's where the discomfort comes in.

It's hard for some who have never practiced competitive sports (endless wind sprints, wrestling, etc) to understand or endure lactic intensity. On the other hand, they are probably not beat up from other aspects of the sport and anybody can learn.

Tom

[Royce]

Bruno,

I’m pretty much in agreement with your missive about HIT done with weights. Arthur Jones has been pretty thoroughly discussed here at the forum over the years.


There are some misconceptions circulating here at this forum that I want to clear up for people who might like to try HIT training as I envision it—that is, HIT utilizing Transformetrics.

First of all, high intensity training that I advocate doesn’t have to follow any set of rules set up by others—not even the rules advocated by Arthur Jones. For those of you who have never heard of him, the late Arthur Jones is considered by many to have been the leading authority on HIT.

In fact, I have never followed a lot of Jone’s advice.

For example, I love utilizing DVRs, which are a form of isokinetics. Arthur Jones and his prize pupil, Mike Mentzer, would roll over in their graves if they read what I’m advocating since they attacked isokinetics or, for that matter, any form of progressive resistance exercise that lacked an eccentric component. So right out of the gate, I’m violating their definition of HIT.


The suggestion has been raised that there is no variation in intensity in the various HIT—high intensity training—programs that I advocate. But that is emphatically not true.

It is true that some of the old style training programs advocated by people like Jones and Mentzer failed to adjust intensity. And people burned out on such programs.

It’s not a situation that exists with HIT as practiced with Transformetrics. This is true for a number of reasons. First and foremost, the mainstay of the routines that I advocate use DVRs, isometrics and power flexing. What is unique about all three of these protocols is the fact that the amount tension that one uses with these exercises is subjective.

And that is an important point. Let me expand upon it.

One of the main tenets of HIT training that utilizes weights is the rule that you are supposed to add weight at each and every workout. That action, particularly over a long period of time, generates a lot of psychological tension.

Lifting a weight is a very objective activity, and adding an additional bit of weight at each workout is a real “mind bender.” But contrast that with doing DVRs. DVRs are subjective. All that one can really be sure of when trying to do a maximum tension DVR is that one is putting forth the best effort possible on that given day. It is impossible to know if more force is being exerted on Monday than on Tuesday. That fact removes a huge amount of psychological tension.

So from workout to workout, one simply does the best he can.

Then there is the matter of working to “failure” which is another central tenet of conventional HIT programs. In practical terms, that means lifting a weight that you can only handle for a single set of ten repetitions. You are supposed to be at the very edge of failure with the last rep.

Well, pray tell, how does one do that with DVRs or isometrics as practiced in the Transformetrics mode? You can do DVRs until you are just lifting the weight of your arms. Practically speaking, there is no point of failure.

Additionally, the various routines that I advocate vary in the amount of workload applied. If you examine the Mighty Mite routine, you will see that it is a minimalist approach consisting of relatively few exercises, whereas other programs I suggest are much more ambitious.

I advocate brief, intense and infrequent training when it comes to progressive resistance. The fact that one doesn’t work out too frequently protects one against over training.

I should also add that one can learn to tell when over training is becoming a problem. Fatigue that stretches from workout to workout and sore tendons are signs that one is over worked. When such symptoms arise, I advocate a layoff from seven to ten days, or, in some cases, even a longer layoff.

I seldom advocate anyone doing progressive resistance exercises more than three times per week. And no muscle group should be worked at maximum tension more than twice per week. Other protocols, such as walking, can be done each day, but it is counter productive to work muscle groups more than twice when one is using maximum tension.

I hope this clears up any misunderstandings. To paraphrase an old refrain: "Mine is not your father's HIT!"

[tom]

. . . supposed to add weight at each and every workout . . . generates a lot of psychological tension.

That is important. If allowed, the person will eventually quit, and so much for long-term health. It's also a caution with any intensity. Too hard, too much and you'll quit. Eventually.

I like real intense, real short. One of the main exercises I credit with my weight loss are vertical jumps, 10 or 20 or so, all out. I can handle that psychologically.

Tom

[Hank_Z]

Hank:

Check out: Lean and Hard: The Body You've Always Wanted in Just 24 Workouts by Mackie Shilstone. The answer is pretty much yes for your questions. The foundation is HIIT with a pretty complete program including diet and supplementation. It's a 6-day per week program which includes 2 optional cardio days. I've gone through the 6-week program a few times and I'm into week two of another round.

Clark:

Thanks for the info. Does Lean and Hard use bodyweight exercises or does it require weights and/or other equipment? I checked both the author's website and Amazon.com and couldn't find the answer to this question.

[Bruno]

Royce, more good info from you. Excellant points.

Clark, thanks for sharing that routine. Looks like the type of thing that would benefit alot of people, myself included.

[Hank_Z]

Hank:

Lean and Hard uses weights, but I don't. I substituted bodyweight exercises primarily with additional ISOs and DVRs. Here's a Monday/Tuesday sample from my 6-week to 500 pushups per day program to give you an idea:

Monday (ATP-CP Energy System HIIT):
- 20 sets of: 10 second sprint followed by 20 seconds of active rest
- Pushups (multiple variations) and Body Rows (multiple angles)
- Includes timed pushups (e.g., 10 pushups per minute for 30 minutes), supersets, and timed supersets (e.g., alternate between 15 pushups first minute and 15 body rows second minute)
- Reps per set are kept relatively low since focus today is on ATP-CP energy system

Tuesday (Lactic Acid Energy System HIIT):
- Leg work (BW squats, wall squats, knee raises, etc.)
- More of a focus on single set of reps to near failure for each exercise (lactic acid energy system)
- Pushups (multiple variations with higher reps per set - focus is on lactic acid energy system today) in between leg work sets
- 8 sets of: 45 second sprint followed by 75 seconds of active rest (sprints done after leg work)

Yes, that sample looks appealing. I wouldn't be able to do anywhere close to 300 pushups in 30 minutes. I'd have to start from a FAR lower base.