The Bailout

[MikeNY]

Who here is sickened by the Bailout. AIG has had 125 Billion Dollars and wanted to give 500 million in bonus money to incompetent Executives, and had to cancel 1600 events like the $1600 a night rooms and seminar for sales staff; parties for executives too. The Auto Industry got 25 Billion and now wants 50 Billion more. We have Auto Executives making cars people don't want, autoworkers that earn on average $73 per hour with benifits. You could buy AIG for 10% of what they have gotten in loans, same for the Auto Companies. The horror stories of autoworkers reading books while the job abound. The average total pay in the Southern non-Union plants is $28 per hour.

Let them all go into Chapter 11 Bankrupty, put the Executives in jail if they did wrong, let them reorganise and if they fail let it happen. I don't even want to pay for the bloated pensions, workers at McDonalds bailing out the pensions of fat cats and lazy workers is just unfair!

The bailout just rubs me the wrong way! Sorry if I offended anyone.

[Free]

I agree with you Mike, and I am not so sure that all this is really making that much difference. Of course we will never really know what would have happened to the economy without the Bailout plan, but I can't imagine that it would have been that much worse, and in the long run, would probably have been better for our economy and the country as a whole.

[Andy62]

The auto package is a real hot potato with both parties and whatever route is taken it looks like the tax payers are going to lose.

[gruntbrain]

I need a bailout; my mailorder business for DIY liposuction kits is failing.

[MikeNY]

gruntbrain how in the world could such a great idea such as a Do-It-Yourself Liposuction Kit fail? It a brilliant idea like that is failing what is next the failure of the home plastic surgery kit Industry.

TY Peacekeeper. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day, don't give me too much credit lol. I live in NY and have seen the corruption in both Parties. Maybe I'm jadded.

[gruntbrain]

New coprporate slogan & mine too:

Most of my faults are not my fault

[Andy62]

I have been watching the hearings on the auto industry bailouts all day. The numbers are staggering and the predictability of the out comes no matter which action is taken does not look good. If this is any indication; build your NERVE FORCE because 2009 is going to be an economic climate the likes of which none of us alive today have ever seen.

[gruntbrain]

Build your NERVE FORCE & shop at the 99 Cent Store; caution prices there are now 99.99 cents( no joke)

[MikeNY]

CNBC announced two Forbes Economists are predicting a recovery in the Second Q of 2009. The reason is banks are lending and lending restarted in October. All things must end. Obama will take credit for this. That is a prediction.

[gruntbrain]

I always question when anytime credit or blame is assigned to a single individua on MACRO issues

[Andy62]

I just don't buy the projections of those two economists. That is by far the most optimistic projection that I have seen. It would be great if that were true ,but the longest projection that I have come across is 15 years. The problem is that the experts disagree and nobody knows what is happening and everything is laden with politics. The earliest realistic projection that iI have seen is the second half of 2010.

[MikeNY]

Yeah Gordon, the average projection is first or second qyater of 2010.

GM, Ford and Chrysler want the loans and no strings attached. The same fools that ran the auto compnaies into the mud want us to trust them and the Unions. If the Executives aren't replaced they'll be asking for more money in 3 months. Huge Execuutive Pay and Bonuses is part of the reason we are there. The Average autoworker now earns $71 per hour they noted on CNBC; thus some earn more than $71 per hour in wages and benifits.

There is a issue of fairness here, why should worker's at McDonalds bailout over paid executuves and workers? Why maintain thier wages and benifits and minimum wages workers carrying thier load. I see Chapter 11 and reorganization as the only way out, dump all the high paid executives first! Then give fair wages to the workers; I think we all know some autoworkers fall asleep and read books on the job or have no show jobs. Politics on the job sucks!

[Free]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnX-D4kkPOQ&eurl=http://www.economicpopulist.org/

[Andy62]

I have been watching the hearings. Irrespective of any of the issues relating to the auto industry I have found some of the questions that the members of Congress are asking are frightening. They have no knowledge of how business works and no understanding of the simplest concepts of international trade.

[MikeNY]

Gordon the really frightening thing is that Wagoner and the Big 3 Auto Executives have no understanding of business or International Trade. MSN Money had an article on the Topic of GM and the other two going out of business. Wagoner and Management want to stay in power, they wrecked the companies and the Union do not want to budge either. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/CompanyFocus/what-if-gm-goes-broke.aspx?page=1

[Andy62]

The management and union are using what in corporate politics we used to refer too as a "Mutt and Jeff" routine. They pretend to be adversaries and play off of each other ,but actually are both acting to keep eachother in power. A very common strategy in some big corporations and in government. All of the actors aren't in Hollywood or in the World Wrestling Federation.

[MikeNY]

Gordon good observations.

Possibly the heads of the Big Auto Three flying in on Private Jets to beg for a handouts didn't go over big with the Senate. One Commentator said the average wage is $73 per hour in the Big three, and benifits more.

Yeah they are Mutt & Jeffing Congress. My bet is they get the money like pigs at a trough and need more later and might still fail. I see no solution except Chapter 11 Reorganization and that will hit the US hard too.

[Andy62]

I think that they will eventually get the money although I agree that chapter 11 would be a better approach. They have average wage costs of over $80.00 per hour in Michigan as opposed to about $50.00 per hour for the foreign car manufacturers operating in the southern states. This is going to be a real political football and both management and the unions are guilty.

[MikeNY]

Toyota pays the highest of the foreign firms, CNBC said they pay $47 an hour but that includes benifits.

Looks like we will see a $6000 Dow or close. This is the buying oppertunity of a genration.

[MikeNY]

Here is an article on the Big Three Auto Makers http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2008/11/17/why-a-bailout-won-t-save-detroit.aspx

With a market of 6,500,000 vehicles they made 15,000,000 it was reported on CNBC. Looks like the Auto Executives don't even know simple math. The Big 3 are DOA.

Here is a Plan to save the US Auto Industry http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2008/11/19/A-plan-to-fix-the-US-auto-industry.aspx This looks viable but can the Auto Executives and the Unions Bosses change is the question?

[Andy62]

The world is restructuring. Rick Santelli on CNBC quoted an investment analyst who said,"The giant 20 year Ponzi Scheme is over."

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/ponzischeme.asp

[MikeNY]

We have to go back to old fashioned stocks, dividends more or less stopped because they weren't tax efficent, that money went to Corporate Executives not into the business. The Investors lost power and Managers became the real owners through Congress and the Courts, that all has to unwind.

I think there is a link to MBA's and Manigerial incompetence, shifting money around rather than working. Once Car Compnaies were ran by Engineers that knew the Business rather than Accountants that knew how to play games with cash. Once US Cars were the best in the world.