Martial Arts Questions

[chrisandniki]

Hello all,

I'm a mid-30-something that's wanted to learn a martial arts style for a long time. I found a place near my work that has adult lunch classes.

They teach Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido.

I have a couple questions for you all:


Do you all have a preference on those styes? Which would you recommend (I'm more interested in the self defense aspect of the styles. I'd also prefer one that requires a better level of conditioning (is more physically active)?
Do you find Transformetrics helpful for martial arts training? Is there any other exercise you all do to help with martial arts (e.g. running, etc)?


Any input you all might provide would be appreciated.

Sincerely,
Chris

[tom]

Preferences: Everybody prefers what they themselves do.

Self defense is dirty, quick, and requires whatever shape you are in at that moment. There is nothing arty about it.

Martial arts is arty to some degree, is a good way to exercise and move, and each claims some degree of self-defenseness. They are right - there is some degree of self-defenseness in what they do.

Suggestion: Find a place close by (so you'll go) with a reasonable teacher you feel comfortable with (so you'll go). Join it, learn whatever it teaches, get in shape with it, make friends.

Then, if you want some more self defense, check out the specialists. There are more than one, many are full of it, some are good. A good one to start with is Larry Wick.

Background: I've been doing a shotokan style for 40 years since I was about 13 and will continue another 50 at least. Gee, I'm still practicing and can't walk on water - I must suck. With age, my recommendations have become non-denominational.

Transformetrics goes with everything.

Good luck,
Tom

[blackbelt]

I have a preference for Hap Ki Do. My reasoning is two fold.

First, it has more “weapons” in its arsenal than Tae Kwon Do. When I attempt to describe the art to people, I say something like “take Tae Kwon Do, Aikido, Judo, Jujitsu, and Kung Fu and combine them all”. There literally are aspects of each within Hap Ki Do. But, there is a catch to Hap Ki Do training though. You have to find a GOOD, and preferably traditional, instructor/school. There are more than a few fly-by-nighters. No matter which art you go with, I strongly suggest you go and watch 2 or more classes. That way you can decide for yourself if they teach what you want to learn. If they won’t allow you to just watch, find another school.

Second, overall it’s a softer art than “old school” Tae Kwon Do”, with tends to leave you less “beat up” after a class.

I’ve been studying Moo Moo Kwan Hap Ki Do for over 14 years. And, although one of the strengths of the art is the fact one does not NEED to be “strong” to do well with it, any strengthening/conditioning will help. It’s basically all about conditioning. If you train, and train hard, you don’t really “need” more.

[Royce]

The Tiger Moves, which were created by the late great John McSweeney and are a prominent part of John Peterson’s book, Pushing Yourself To Power, have their origins in the ancient Kung Fu practices.

John McSweeney took elements of the Iron Wire exercises and wove them into his Tiger Moves. Assuming that you can learn to get a good flex with your muscles in order to supply resistance, the Tiger Moves will build great strength, since they are a form of isokinetics sans apparatus.

Tiger Moves will help you jump higher and hit harder, and provide all round conditioning.

Get John Peterson’s book, PYTP. That’s my advice.

Here are some original, Iron Wire Moves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M02E5hXLmeI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5pd2FfjI6w

From my perspective, practical self-defense usually means employing weapons of one sort or another. A good course featuring the use of the kubaton—palm stick—is a great way to gain quick proficiency.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPgCbwfZ8uY


Learning to use a “tactical folder”—a folding knife designed for self defense—is an option. If you are proficient with the Kubaton, you should be able to quickly adapt to “point driven” knife techniques.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sk7B-XXCJY


If you are really serious, then you might want to explore escrima, a martial art that puts heavy emphasis on both stick and blade work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7zlEKKA66Q


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD7BhuC_DlQ&feature=related




Personally, I teach martial arts Qi Gong—the “hard style.” And that form features a wide range of tension exercises not unlike the Tiger Moves. And I chose to combine that with a lot of “stick and blade” work.

[keith james]

Hi Chris

I am at this instant a qualified sports coach for shotokan karate, i have been doing karate for the last 5 years. I chose karate as there was not much choice for me at the time.

If i was you try them both out and see which one you prefer. They may both hold classes that include conditioning with their martial arts training.

When i first started karate, i was doing a different style and we did not do any conditioning apart from the karate training, but the club i am in now, we do alot more body conditioning, sometimes we will do maybe 45 minutes of conditioning, such as squats, pushups, situps, leg raises, sprints, etc.

You also have asked if Transformetrics will help your martial arts training, YES.

Now seriously, yes it will, i fin dthat you need leg strength to help with your kicks, and that goes with ab work for your kicks and punches, and pushups could strengthen your upper body to help with your punches and strikes and blocks.

So good luck in your choice, as i said earlier, spend a little time in each class and see which one you prefer.

Please let us know which one you choose.

All the best for now.

KEITH JAMES.

[ben alexander]

I was fortunate to have a good Taekwondo instructor, plus plenty of friends who were willing to swap ideas with me, from other styles. I had a boxer, who taught me the footwork, evasion technqiues and punches. Another did Goju-Ryu, and I even did a little of that style for a few months.

My grandad was in the Armed Forces, and I learnt some Close Quarter Battle stuff off of him, too.

I agree with Blackbelt, though, regarding Hapkido, and endorse his caveats. A friend of mine studied Kuk Sol Won, which was a variation of Hapkido, but he left as he felt it was a bit too "esoteric" for him. He told me that on the one hand, it was "50 ways to get out of a wrist hold" and too much KI training on the other. He felt that, if they pared down the self-defense drills and did a bit more sparring, it would be a good sysyem, but the sheer number of techniques (practical and impractical) would cause confusion in real life.

Ben

[gbjj]

Hey Chris,

I have to agree with what Tom said, everybody prefers their own style.

I've been doing Gracie Jiu-Jitsu for about 4 years now and find that it's an art that I can do my entire life, I'm not going to suggest you try it and I'm not going to promote it but I do have a suggestion.

More importantly than which art to choose between those 2 make sure you pay particular attention to the academy you go to. Watch how the students work with each other, how the instructor works with the students. Is it a friendly open place or is it full of people with attitudes and baggage.

When you decide to start training your not just taking up a hobby, your joining a family. So make sure you choose wisely.

-J

p.s. Yeah, transformetrics transcends all arts..... it goes with everything.. Enjoy the journey

[kelbiz]

I'm of the same mindset as many others here.
Do you want self-defense? A basic video might help. Paul Vunak teaches some great stuff.
Do you want to the whole martial art philosophy, culture, Zen and stuff like that? Go for it.
Both can benefit you.
I started martial arts in '76 and continue to realize that one never stops learning.
But if my wife, daughter, sister or mother was in a "situation" - it's basic, dirty, nasty get out of there ASAP stuff.

Jack

[blackbelt]

the sheer number of techniques (practical and impractical) would cause confusion in real life.Ben

Something to keep in mind for almost any fighting system is that IF the instructor is good, they’ll teach you more than one technique for a given situation. If you are to advance in the belt rankings, you are expected to become at least moderately proficient in each of those techniques. BUT, in our school, the Grand-Master encourages us to develop a few techniques as “secret weapons”. By that, he means that he wants us to have a few techniques that we’re very comfortable with and that we KNOW we can take somebody out with.

Even though size and strength are usually de-emphasized in our art, one has to realize that not every technique is going to work on every attacker, thus the need to have experience in a variety of techniques. It adds to your arsenal. Even though a slew of techniques may seem confusing, imagine if you were attacked, while only knowing a few techniques. But, none of them worked. What then?

In my personal opinion, the more techniques you have at your disposal, the better. It’s the practice/training that makes the real difference.

[ben alexander]

I agree, Blackbelt. Excellent post.

My point was that there was a large number of essentially pointless variations on the same technique, in Kuk Sool. The "50 variations on a wristlock escape" wasn't an exaggeration!

By all means learn lots of techniques, but be wary of how much of it is practical, and how much is just there to pump up the syllabus. Its human nature to want to learn as much as possibel, rather than sticking to a few practical moves. I've been in a real fight, and its nasty, brutal, short, and damn terrifying. The fine motor control and the intricate moves that work so well in the gym, don't come to mind when the adrenaline kicks in.

Something to bear in mind when choosing something for self defence. Do they deal with the sheer terror of an assault, by practicing "live"? If they don't you're in for a real shock if you ever get attacked.

Ben

[gbjj]

I have to really agree on the various techniques for situations etc.... In Jiu-Jits the techniques never end.. there is always a counter, and the only way to get better is to train your A$$ off. You can't read it in a book, and drill the move and expect to be able to use it. You have to train and spar in a real situation over and over again to get better...

I remember hearing Rickson (maybe it wasn't him, but someone wiser than me) say if I choke you over and over again with the same basic rear naked choke and that's all I use every time I fight you. Does it mean that I don't have many techniques or does it mean that I have perfected that technique well enough to catch you in it from just about anywhere...

In Jiu-Jits there are not a lot of basic techniques (although they take a long time to perfect) but many ways to get to those techniques. In traditional martial arts there are many many techniques.

Just some thoughts....

[blackbelt]

Its human nature to want to learn as much as possibel, rather than sticking to a few practical moves. I've been in a real fight, and its nasty, brutal, short, and damn terrifying. The fine motor control and the intricate moves that work so well in the gym, don't come to mind when the adrenaline kicks in.

Hey Ben,

While I agree with your statement of the desire to learn as much as possible, I think there’s a fine line when you start talking about “practical moves”. There are many techniques which don’t seem practical when they’re first learned, often because they’re new and/or don’t make sense to us. But, additional instruction and determined practice can make them very practical.

Good or bad, while much of what you say is true for most practitioners, I feel that’s simply due to training deficiencies.

Obviously, you can learn self-defense without learning an “art”. But, that’s not to say that if you were to “master” an art, you can’t defend yourself. That’s where the martial arts originate from, the desire/need to defend one’s self from attack. If the techniques weren’t effective, I have serious doubt that they’d still be around. Much of today’s “self-defense” has originated from individuals who don’t want to learn a traditional art. And, that’s ok. But, let’s not take the effectiveness away from the arts. It’s kind of like saying a gun is worthless because the shooter hasn’t practiced/trained enough to hit his/her intended target consistently.

I apologize for the rant. But, people down-playing a martial art from a self-defense perspective is kind of a thing for me. I’m sure that’s largely due to the fact that one of my senior instructors is also in law enforcement. And, his knowledge and use of different techniques can be the difference on any given day. Believe me, if the art was less than effective, he would quickly abandon it.

[tom]

The original martial art came from martial training until someone relatively recently put the art thing to it. The original looked like marine boot camp, how to kill and not die. As it moved away from boot camp, it got more and more theoretical, Now we have the sports aspect confusing the issue further.

I've been doing my martial art for forty years and will never quit. It has kept me in decent shape, given me physical uncooperative interaction with others, and gives me a certain amount of grace if I ever saw an altercation coming. As for self defense, two hours with Larry would make me and some complete newcomer on the same level, for all practical purposes.

I think I believed in martial arts more before I studied one. For that matter, I don't know if I ever believed in them all that much.

Tom