VRT curative: American Yoga

[MikeNY]

VRT and Isometrics, I think just as John and Gordon are working on American Yoga so is Greg and VRT part of the beginning of American Yoga. Like DVR's I've found that VRT works as a curative system. The first one I tried as the VRT dumb bell lifts, thinking this is just like the DVR the high reach exercise; yes it is and the results seem the same.

I am trying using the VRT deadlift and it seems to make a difference in the lower back area and also strengths the abs.

Is anyone else experiementing with VRT like that? I see a few exercises that seem to work, as Gordon has taught us Isometrics have a role in fixing things, I think this is how Yoga got it's reputation.

[Andy62]

In the 1970s when I was living in Kansas City,Missouri, the Menninger Foundation, which was then located in nearby Topeka, Kansas, was carrying on research with yogis that they had flown in from India. The goal of the experiments was to scientifically determine, using the latest in scientific techniques and electronic monitoring devices, to what extent these yogis could actually contol their consciousness and their autonomic nervous systems. Swami Rama was one of the subjects featured in the experiments. There were numerous interim reports on the progress of the studies featured on various local TV news programs.The two principle scientists heading up the research were Elmer Green Ph.D and his wife Alyce Green MA. They published a book fully documenting the results of their experiments titled "Beyond Biofeedback" and that book has been instrumental in influencing the new science of biofeedback. Yoga which has been in existence for centuries and the new science of biofeedback both deal with the 'ability of the mind to control matter and specifically the body'. While the book is very detailed and highly scientific the final conclusion of the studies as mentioned on one of the final TV reports was more concise and very much to the point. It simply stated that yoga was "Getting into a relaxed state and visualizing the desired bodily results."
A more recent incident pointed me in the direction of the same "principle". It was during the last Olympics in China where in a TV interview the current head of the Shaolin Temple described the marital arts specific DVR/VRT exercises that they do as "Moving Meditation" From history we know that Bodhidharma, a yoga monk from India, extracted the "principles" from yoga and applied them to the martial arts where they became the Kung Fu Tensing Exercises.
W.Clement Stone, one of the pioneers of Positive Thinking said,"Don't learn facts learn principles." He realized that the principles of one activity can many times be applied successfully to another acitvity.
Applying the same "universal law" of 'the minds ability to control matter and specifically the body' as applied in yoga, the marital arts, and biofeedback; John Peterson, Greg Mangan and before them Alois P. Swoboda extracted the " principles" from that "universal law"and applied them to functioning effctively and successfully in contemporary western culture.

"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will." Mahatma Gandhi

[Andy62]

Alois P Swoboda may have had more knowledge of yoga than I previously thought. I recently came across the below linked history of yoga which is the most comprehensive that I have found. The important information in the article is that knowledge of yoga was present in America since the late 1800s. In 1893 a prominent yogi participated in a major conference in Chicago. It increases the possiblities in my mind that Swoboda came across these principles from those sources. Previously this internal power had been applied too developing bodily control in yoga and physical and mental strength for the martial arts. Swoboda changed the orientation of those same cousciousness developing exercises and principles. He redirected them not only to developing the body and physical strength ,but also improved functioning ability in contemporary western culture from increased intuitive abilities and mental agility.



http://www.myyogaonline.com/yoga_article_32_History_of_Yoga.html

[MikeNY]

Gordon very interesting I read that article you posted, maybe Swoboda did have contact with Yoga. I've wondered since Swoboda was from Austria and it was an Eastward looking Empire if Swoboda had contact with elements in Eastern Europe. If you look at people like Grigori Rasputin to the traveling Gypsies you see an element of the esoteric that existed there in Eastern Europe at the time, there may even have been Indian Yogi's from British India drawn to that Mileau. Or Swoboba was a independent thinker and his thoughts bore good fruit.

[Andy62]

Mike, Your comments are very interesting. I have had this theory for a long time that since tensning of the muscles is the most natural of exercises;that isometrics and DVR/VRT have been more widley used over the centuries than we know. It must have been 50 years ago, before I had really developed the strong interest in this subject that I have today, that I was in a used bookstore in St.Louis and I came across a book titled "Tensioning." Flipping through it I saw that it was recomending DVR/VRT, Isometric, and Isometric Power Flexing type exercises. One statement that I remember from the book is that those types of exercises were very popular with the Russian Aristocracy. Your mention of Rasputin triggered that recollection. I have pretty thoroughly looked into whether there was a formal training system used by Ancient Russian Monks and I was unable to find any evidence of that. As for Rasputin, it seems to me that his superhuman NERVE FORCE ,as evidenced by the difficulty in killing him, was really the result of not having any type of social restraints or inhibitions. He believed, as taught by a branch of The Russian Church, that "the only way to achieve salvation was to sin and sin big." He also believed that he had been visited by The Virgin Mary. Who knows,but it is interesting stuff to explore. Gordon

[MikeNY]

Gordon interesting comments, and sounds like that book "Tensioning" might explain Swoboda. I am not sure about the Russian Monks but I know there were various Groups in Russia like the Castrati; Skoptsy in Russian that sought salvation through castration. If there was one Gnostic group there must have been others teaching esoteric topics, and there was a vein in Europe from Madame Blavatsky to the Golden Dawn Group in Britian. I agree with you muscle tensensing is an old art. One place you might look is the Fencing Schools and the wealth of data they gathered on knife fighting, wrestling, boxing, kick boxing, stick fighting as well as sword fighting to using revolvers and shotguns in a gunfight.

This phenomenon occured all over Europe and there is literature on the Schools teaching European Martial Arts. I have an interest in the Bowie knife and long ago discovered there were schools teaching Bowie knife fencing in each city along the Mississippi River, and those schools taught other related topics like saber, stick and cane fighting as well as boxing and wrestling. If a rude frontier nation like the US had this then Austria will have had it more. In those fencing academy you might well find the spring from where Swoboda drank.

[Andy62]

Raputin seems to have been a totally unrestrained individual with little formal education or socialization. He mixed a ravenous sexual drive with extensive over indulgence in alcohol and a fanatical interest in religion which included his claiming a vision of The Virgin Mary who instructed him to become a pilgrim. This motivated him to go on a two year walk or pilgrimage. He became a wandering peasant in search of adventure and his own salvation. There is little doubt that he believed that he had been chosen by God for a special mission. When he returned years later he was a changed man who spoke in riddles and had been influenced by two heretical sects-the "Khlysty" and the "Skopsty." Greg King in his book "The Murder Of Rasputin" says that the Khlysty believed in masochistic beatings followed by sexual orgies while the Skopsty believed that you had to sin and sin big to attain salvation and that chastity was a sin of pride. Both philosophies played into Rasputin's self image and desires and from what I can tell developed a kind of unrestrained, "crazy strength" that was intensified by the belief that it was God's will. There is little doubt that Rasputin developed a significant amount of physical strength as well as a very strong magnetic and charismatic personality. That would be necessary for such a crude and uncultured peasant to be accepted by the established religious hierarchy of Russia as well as the Tsar and Tsarina of Russia. His acendancy into the power structure of Russia was helped by the fact that the son of the Tsar and Tsarina and their only male heir to the throne suffered from hemophelia and Rasputin seemed to have a ability to heal him or atleast leave him much improved after visiting him.

[MikeNY]

Gordon I wouldn't be surprised if Rasputin was a self taught Hypnotist or learned that skill in his travels. Islam had been in Western Russia and Siberia and the Sufi do a form of Yoga, Breathing and Self Hypnosis. They have been known to teach Westerners and thier advanced knowledge in my area's might have been studied by Rasputin. There were even Muslim Schools of fencing and combat arts.

[Andy62]

The more that I think about Rasputin the harder it is to imagine him taking instructions from anyone. He grew up in a very harsh enviroment that required strength just to survive and he was wild and uncontrollable from the start. Survival is itself an act of self domination. There are some people who are able to conpletely control their bodies, minds, and emotions just through sheer desire, and will power and I think Rasputin was one of those people. Yoga is really just an act of will power and control of the mind. Remember the definition of yoga that came out of the Menninger Foundation research-" Get into a relaxed state and visualize the desired bodily result." Let's remember that great quote from Napoleon Hill,"Whatever the mind can conceive and believe the mind can achieve."

[Pancho]

Hey, MikeNY and Andy62,
Very interesting thread,I've been a forum reader for some time....first time posting...always enjoy reading both of your commets . I've learned a lot from this site....nice to find others who have made some of the same "discoveries" as I have. Truly is nothing new under the sun......Now that I've broken my silence, Hello everyone! lol.

[Andy62]

Pancho,Welcome, It is great to have you here and posting. I came across this type of training over 30 years ago when I was facing all kinds of problems in my life and really needed it. It has really turned things around for me and added to the enjoyment of my life. John Peterson and Greg Mangan are doing a great service in making this training avalilable. I recently saw a report on TV where somebody had trained themselves over time and made themselves immune to the venom of rattle snakes. That is not somethng that I want to try or would recommend,but it is just one more proof of the abilities of our minds and bodies to adapt to changes and challenges . This is great stuff and it makes life a lot more exciting and a lot more fun. Just knowing that we have these capabilities and potentials within us and how to tap into them adds a whole new dimension and sense of adventure to our lives. They give us the ability to train ourselves for any eventuality that we may be facing or any goal that we may want to accomplish."You don't have too if you know that you can." The options are limitless. Gordon

[MikeNY]

Welcome aboard Pancho, nice to meet you. I was a lurker here before a member so we share that. In 5th grade they called me Pancho Villa and Paco, because of my mustache and ethnic looks; the NY girl's liked that look. At the time it was a pain but on being an adult a blessing.

[Pancho]

What? a mustache in 5th grade? Guess you must have dominated that class for a while...till they caught up to you? You and Gordon seem to have interesting backgrounds.....ex-military? Wandering vagabound? Seeker?
I was interested in what you both discussed concerning the old European martial arts. I have read that in many ways they were at least as advanced as the Asian arts.
I have also read of "fencing" schools of a sort in early America...guess every culture develops some form of "protection". Interesting that self defense was considered an integral part of a gentlemens' education in Europe and today the most educated and intellectual seem so very incapable and helpless.....all you need is a cell phone right?...that's what they keep telling us....give me a little good ole fashioned self sufficiency any day. Look forward to discussing more with you guys.

[VRT Man]

Hey Pancho, good to have you with us! Probably the most interesting aspect of visualization is that it is a really a mental tool designed to focus the mind and utilize more mental power into things you're doing. That's why this is an interesting type of exercise; it is because it focuses and elevates your mental energies. Good to have you posting with us!

Greg Mangan
VRT Man

[Andy62]

" Experimental and clinical psychologists have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the human nervous system cannot tell the difference between an "actual" experience and an experience imagined vividly and in detail."

Maxwell Maltz, M.D.
"Psychocybernetics"

[MikeNY]

Pancho to answer you; just a seeker and lucky.

In Little Italy having a mustache at age 10 or 11 was much more common for boys than among the general Population. It never caught up for me, just the opposite it was a plus. I was just one of many with a mustache.

[Pancho]

Hello Greg,
Have enjoyed your input as I have been reading this forum for some time. I purchased your VRT course way back in '82, I think. Used it only briefly....and just didn't fully believe in it I suppose. Now, in my 40's...have made my best gains using VRT/DVR concepts,and some isometrics. I'm impressed that you practice what you have preached.....all this time.
I understand that you typically do a single set per exercise? Do you train for pure strength/size or do you also include endurance/cardio or interval type training? I'm sure you've discussed this before but, I would be interested in hearing it again...thanks in advance.

[VRT Man]

Pancho, I used to build just for size, because at the time, I believed in this system as strictly a 'bodybuilding' technique or system. And I did gain size.

Now that I'm almost 58, I have changed it to more of an endurance/cardio system by again doing one set, but I make this a long set, and NOT with a high degree of flexion or contraction; I do many fast movements, to generate an elevated HR. Take any VRT movement and do it long and fast, and you'll notice an elevated heart rate. Apply this to several if not all muscle groups, and you will experience a good cardio effect. This is what I myself have been doing, just on my own personal level, for the last two years. I add Atlas sit-ups, which are virtually the same as my VRT sit-ups in my course booklet, but not as far-reaching (to the knees) as the Atlas sit-up; and I've added Atlas III push-ups, often both on alternate days of my VRT.

Greg Mangan

[Pancho]

Thanks Greg,
Have been looking for a way to do intervals to replace sprints (too much heel pain). I will try doing VRT moves like you suggest. Never really performed them like that.Should be interesting.
Pancho