VRT vs. DVR

[JoeJustice]

Hey Greg, I got an interesting e-mail I wanted to share with you:

Hi Joe!

I have a question. I heard someplace that DVRs and VRTs are virtually the same, thus your development with either would be the same (always good).

Is this true?

If not, please explain the difference.

Now it's not totally explicit, but I think the underlying question here is really, "Hey if DVR and VRT are the same thing, what's the point in doing DVRs or VRT why not just do one or the other?" I know this has been covered before on the forum, but with new members every day, I think it's something worth revisiting from time to time.

My take on it is pretty much, "Different strokes for different folks." Physiologically are DVRs and VRT the same thing? Yeah probably so, but conceptually they're quite a bit different. VRT is geared more for people who have experience with and enjoy weight lifting. The movements are very similar to weight lifting and if you have a foundation in that type of training, it's easier to pick up on.

DVRs are a bit more esoteric, they are not familiar movements to people who are use to weight training. For example a VRT bicep curl is pretty straight forward while the DVR wrist twist works a range of muscles in a way that's probably not really familiar to a lot of people.

Do they both build muscle? Yes. Are they both using antagonistic muscles to work as resistance on protagonist muscles? Yes. But are they "virtually the same"? I don't think so.

Personally, I think VRT is probably more approachable for people new to this kind of training. It's probably easier for them to wrap their minds around because the movements, and thus the muscles involved, are more familiar to them.

What do you think?

-Joe

[MikeNY]

Good reply Joe. Someone on the forum recently asked me a similar question; regarding the difference between VRT and DVR HIT weightless weightlifting. Greg invented VRT and I am not sure of the origin of Royce's DVR HIT routine. It is odd Royce and I were talking and we discovered both of us were thinking about using DVR Chest Expander/Strand Pulling.

I see VRT and DVR HIT as the same, different names for a very similar exercises.

[VRT Man]

From a purely physiological or musculo-skeletal viewpoint, they are both the same. I happened upon this system on my own back in '83. However, John had explored this same physiological mode of exercise from various other sources, such as old-style bodybuilders like Swoboda and from yoga bodybuilding, found in the oriental martial arts and Qi Gong.

I applied it from other angles than simply imitating weight training and bullworker exercises, but John applied a different twist to it, in that similar exercises of John McSweeney utilized the exact same system, and comprised a variety of movements. (The Miracle Seven). John called it DVR, I originally called my system VRT. They both require flexion through a full range of motion, but Dhandal and Bhasky ask that the student do these full-flexed contractions in front of a mirror to enhance the exercise. John mentions this in his explanation of DVR. I don't necessarily say that in my course. I teach one direction only, as a strict imitation of a weightlifting session, but the DVR concept says both directions of flexion are reasonable and acceptable. They are simply different teachings of the same system.

--Greg Mangan

[firefox]

When I purchased PYTP,I started doing DVRs with resistance in both directions because that's how John directed in the book.When I discovered this web site I heard about VRTs. I tried to ascertain the difference in these two tecniques with inquiring e-mails;but,I received different answers. One stated the difference being that VRTs mimicked weight training;one said that VRTs apply tension in one direction only etc.. however,I've concluded that essentially,there is no difference.For one,they both mimick weight training.The only difference would be that VRT excercises simulate more compound movements: bench press,bent-over-row,military press;whereas,DVRs simulate more isolation movements: curl,triceps extension, shoulder roll etc. As far as tension being applied in one or both directions,only the muscle that's being worked in the concentric or positive direction is being worked.With tension in both directions you're essentially doing a super-set,working opposing muscle groups in the concentric only. For instance,in the curl,tension is applied to the biceps in the contraction(concentric movement).When the arm is extended back to the starting position,if there is no weight or external resistance for the biceps to apply braking,there is no tension on the biceps;so,on the extension of the arm,there can only be tension on the triceps - unless,visualizing that there is tension on the biceps has an effect.Am I correct in this analysis?

[John Peterson]

Hey Guys,

Interesting discussion that you are having here. In my case I never weight trained and so for me it was much easier for me to understand the concept of "thinking into and contracting the muscle directly " rather than to imagine that I was lifting something. In terms of the final result, I don't think there is the least bit of difference.

Now in terms of contracting the muscles in one direction only or in both directions of flexion and extension, it all depends. I perform some of my exercises with tension in both directions with a brief pause to allow blood flow into the muscles. Yet there are some exercises that it seems better to perform in one direction only. This is something that needs to be discovered on an individual basis through experimentation.

---John Peterson

[Greg Newton]

In general, when I do DVR/VRT I contract the muscles in only one direction. I think it is important to learn to completely relax the muscles after a strong contraction. This hit home after I was trying to recover from an ATV accident a few years ago. It seemed like my muscles were never going to relax again, which I understand is a common occurance after vehicle accidents.

After months of chiropractic and deep tissue massage, I finally was able to do DVR/VRT. The Swoboba and Von Diggelen sections in PYTP were very helpful. Their concept of total tension and total relaxation made sense.

Having said that, there are still a couple of exercises where I do use tension both ways. One is the bicep curl. The reason being, during my weight training days, I learned that the negative movement was good for stimulating the lower muscle fibers of the bicep. This works just as well with VRT curls.

[John Peterson]

hey VRT Man,

A man e-mailed me asking if I could give an example of an exercise that I do that uses VRT contraction in both directions. And the answer is: I use VRT contraction in both directions while practicing VRT Squats. I'm not saying anyone else should. It just feels natural to me so I tense the muscles of my Quads in both the lowering phase and the extension phase. Other than that I know that Greg Mangan's admonition to perform the contraction in one direction only allows the blood to flow into the muscles and creates a far, far better 'pump' than trying to contract the muscles in both directions. I've done it both ways and Greg's instruction is right on the mark. What Greg advocates will prevent fluctuations in blood pressure.

---John Peterson