Why are high rep push-ups so effective for size gains?

[vegetus25]

I asked about the effectiveness of the Power T’s in another thread. Greg N. and peacekeeper both said when they stopped doing higher volume push-ups in favor of lower volume (but more intense) Power T push-ups they lost size. Others swear by high volume push-ups for size. So the above leads me to the following questions:

What volume is needed for size gains? I know this varies, but what has been your experience?

Why do high volume push-ups lead to size gains? I am sure it has something to do w/ blood being pumped into the muscles, but you can get a great pump from low reps also? Maybe higher intensity is good for strength, but not as good for size?

Or maybe since the higher volume push-ups are lower intensity it is easier to recover from them and, therefore, a person has more energy to grow?

And where does rep speed play into this (or does it)? From what I have seen most high reppers perform their reps at a good pace. Is there something to the number of times the blood is being pumped into the muscle?

Have any of you performed faster, but more reps verses more moderate, but lower reps (but the same amount of time under tension)? What were the results as far as size? If you have not done this which method do you think would produce more size gain? And why?

Heck, I don’t know why they work, but would like to hear your experience and/or opinions?

God bless,

Veg

P.S. Of course, all of the above assumes one is eating a mass gaining diet.

[tom]

Bodybuilders who are after size have always done high reps of lightish weights.

Tom

[PowerHank]

I started gaining mass just starting to do the Tiger Stretch pushups. But never really started to gain mass towards the center (sternum) until I was able to consistently do 3 sets of 50 or more consistently. My experience has been consistent with what John wrote in his Pushing Yourself to Power.

Hank

I go through about 3 - 4 ponds of peanuts a week.

[tom]

I go through about 3 - 4 ponds of peanuts a week.

That's 7,008 calories to 9,344 calories. How many calories make a pound of bodyweight? 3,600?

That calorie count is based on reduced fat peanut butter, the first thing I saw googling.

Tom

[budgiefan]

Muscle overload results in size gain. low reps/high intensity works for some, high reps/low intensity works for others.

[Daniel]

Its all about TUT (Time Under Tension), high reps/volume exposes muscles to higher amounts of TUT which leads to growth.

[ben alexander]

Daniel...I've found that!

Ben

[Hank_Z]

I started gaining mass just starting to do the Tiger Stretch pushups. But never really started to gain mass towards the center (sternum) until I was able to consistently do 3 sets of 50 or more consistently.

Just to clarify, are you referring to consistently doing 3 sets of 50 or more Tiger Stretch pushups...or of another type of pushup?

Hank

[tony84]

hey vegetus. I think it all depends on the individual. Intensity and volume have nothing to do with high reps. If you are doing power cals its really not your choice whether you do high reps or not, if your not strong enough to do so. Of course some forms are easier then others but just start where you are and keep pushin. Now as for bodybuilders. It is true bodybuilders lift lighter weights but not 50 reps a set. They usually lift in the 8-12 range. It is true that you can build strength without gaining muscle but you have to lift very heavy. This would be in the 1-5 rep range. So if you can do at least ten push ups youll start to see growth.

Tony

[mike]

I think the higher rep work is important because time undertension is constantly cited by strength coaches as an important component of workouts for size. I think it has something to do with the accumulation of growth factors - by products of exercise that the muscles releases to signal growth and repair. medium rep ranges 8-15 cause the most damage to the muscles which is their mechanism for causing growth. Super low rep ranges like 1-5 are good for mastering skills and strength and some research shows that lower reps with full body exercises can increase testosterone levels briefly. Essentially there are several mechanisms for growth in a muscle, I think higher rep stuff works best for many people because it does not make you severely sore and thus can be done on a more regular basis.

[mts]

60 - 90 seconds of time under tension has been scientifically proven to be ideal. There are university studies available on-line that go into details. Much longer than that (per set) apparently serves little benefit for muscular strength and size.

[John Peterson]

Hey Guys,

Everything that has been stated here in this thread is great but don't forget that no upper body exercise infuses as much highly oxygenated blood and nutrients into the upper body muscle mass as does high volume push-ups from multiple angles. This infusion of blood brings nutrients and growth factors that are essential for growth and the TUT (time under tension) enhances release of testosterone and HGH.

Never underestimate even moderately high volume Push-Ups for building an exceptional body. in fact, some of you may remember that in PYTP I profiled 1920's muscle's -by-mail, muscle builder, Earle Liederman that had students achieving fantastic success with just one set of 100 standard floor Push-ups. Naturally it took his students a long time to work up to one set of 100 but that is what he recommended. His successor Charles Atlas recommended that his own advanced students work up to performing 200 Atlas Push-Ups between chairs each day, to be performed in several sets morning and night until they achieved a total of 200 or more. And of course many of us, including yours truly, are living proof that Atlas students achieved fantastic results. Bottom line: The Push-Up is king in my opinion.

---John Peterson

[vegetus25]

Have you guys found more gains in size from working up to performing higher reps per set or from performing more reps per workout/day, but not being concerned w/ the number of reps in a set?

[mts]

My biggest gains, almost from any form of exercise, was from performing 100 Atlas push-ups in the morning and 100 again in the evening every day. I did this every day, but had to back off due to some shoulder, wrist and misc. aches and pains. I'd love to try it again, but next time I'm going to build up more slowly to that objective instead of jumping right into it.

I've done numerous weight lifting strategies, heavy weights low reps, low weight high reps, strip sets, negatives, partials, you name it. Two sessions of pushups per day with higher volume worked as well as anything for chest and arm development.

[mike]

I found that sets between 15-30 were best for me as far as muscle building went. Increaes in endurance or strength came by adding more sets, not more to my sets. These days i have slacked off my pushups but maybe i will start doing them again

[marktb]

hmmm,

As you know, I had GREAT success with high volume pushups, but soon DEVIATED from what built the size from the pushups(bt chairs). I started tweaking t hings and altering the very same protocol that produced phenomenal gains. I became very tired and one day woke up, from m y perspective, much smaller. I think I pushed it too far and eventually my body DECOMPENSATED and I didn't notice it til this particular day

For 2 months, I did 450-500 per day, broken up into 2 sessions along withh some wall handstands and DR curls. Nothing spectacular. Looking back, I made a couple crucial mistakes. I started pushing things, thinking the MORE I did, the BETTER results I would get. I was wrong. I started going closer to failure which I believe started the overtraining ball rolling. If HVP are your drug of choice, stay FAR away from failure, especially if you do them everyday. Its very easy to rack up the volume because the results are so spectacular.

Another great training method to incorporated HVP into your routines is to do 2 sets of very high reps, 100, followed by isos, followed by a few lower rep sets for strength. The first 2 high-rep sets maximize blood flow and oxygen to the muscles, setting the stage for more intense stimuli.

Mark Baldwin


[/B]

[Hank_Z]

hmmm,

As you know, I had GREAT success with high volume pushups, but soon DEVIATED from what built the size from the pushups(bt chairs). I started tweaking t hings and altering the very same protocol that produced phenomenal gains. I became very tired and one day woke up, from m y perspective, much smaller. I think I pushed it too far and eventually my body DECOMPENSATED and I didn't notice it til this particular day

For 2 months, I did 450-500 per day, broken up into 2 sessions along withh some wall handstands and DR curls. Nothing spectacular. Looking back, I made a couple crucial mistakes. I started pushing things, thinking the MORE I did, the BETTER results I would get. I was wrong. I started going closer to failure which I believe started the overtraining ball rolling. If HVP are your drug of choice, stay FAR away from failure, especially if you do them everyday. Its very easy to rack up the volume because the results are so spectacular.

Another great training method to incorporated HVP into your routines is to do 2 sets of very high reps, 100, followed by isos, followed by a few lower rep sets for strength. The first 2 high-rep sets maximize blood flow and oxygen to the muscles, setting the stage for more intense stimuli.

Mark Baldwin


[/B]

Mark, thanks for sharing your experience. And I know how easy it is for me to get into the "more is better" mindset.

-Hank

[Nathan]

Hey Veg,

I would have to say that 500 push-ups or less a day gave me the best results. I have even tried 1,000 push-ups a day but I think that did more harm that good. But like you said it varies from one person to the next.

I think that high volume push-ups work so well is that you are more than likely doing through out the day, So you are constantly pumping fresh blood into your muscles. So not only are you pumping those nutrients into your muscles fresh oxygen. This is just another reason DEEP BREATHING is so important.


I would not say higher volume push-ups aren't intense. When I was doing them I was mainly doing pyramids but did also do a few days of GTG just to give my body a little bit of rest. Anyway those pyramids where pretty dang HARD. But this also varies how much rest a person takes in between each set. So I would not say it is because this is less intense.

Anyway I hope this answers most of your questions and All the best

---Nathan

[omad0n]

For me, I'm actualy tryign to keep size off. In that respect, I've found that 500 pushups a day is a great number. All done at 4 min. intervals, for sets of 25. The body has adjusted fully, I feel great afterward with lots of energy. Weight is coming off too. I also started rock climbing again, and that has continued to keep the lean streak going. For overall strength my 6 days a week workout is going strong, that's alternating days that I climb and days that I do my pushups with 1 day of complete rest.

[truth42day]

Thank you everyone for your input. I haven't been on this site very often, but this thread answered a lot of my questions. I still have to find my workable number. I found when I first started I tried to push out too many and hurt myself (shoulders w/the Atlas) and I couldn't even get one Tiger bend out. So I've tried to do at least 300 push ups (Perfect Push Ups) and Standard Liederman's 3-4 x's per week. My usual routine is pick up my bible, split the chapter into 3, read some of the verses, crank out 25-30, read, then maybe some pull ups or chins, read, pushups, read, ab roller, etc for between 30 mins to an hr in the morning. That way I'm working two sets of muscles....! For me I believe the biggest issue is being consistent. I've desired to get an evening routine in but I've got to say I haven't been successful to date. The numbers I saw on this post are 500. Is 300 good? I guess I should say my desire is to build mass (get V'd), lose the gut (the most difficult thing as it deals w/my diet), w/strength as a second benefit. Does anyone else deal with the lack of desire initially....if I can just start I always find I like the pump...it's just confincing myself to do it. Any suggestions. I also wonder with the comment on the lbs of peanuts eaten per week...what kind of protein should I be eating and when is it most effective during a workout (before I start or after?). I find myself quite lightheaded after the morning workout many times and have wondered if I should have a bowl of oatmeal or something before I begin....Your input would be appreciated. TDK

[stingray]

I like your routine. That's how I can get my daily Bible reading in. Great routine.

[Hank_Z]

... I still have to find my workable number. I found when I first started I tried to push out too many and hurt myself (shoulders w/the Atlas) and I couldn't even get one Tiger bend out. So I've tried to do at least 300 push ups (Perfect Push Ups) and Standard Liederman's 3-4 x's per week... The numbers I saw on this post are 500. Is 300 good? ...

Does anyone else deal with the lack of desire initially....if I can just start I always find I like the pump...it's just confincing myself to do it... TDK

Welcome, TDK! You'll find a combination of knowledge and helpfulness that's far more than I ever expected. Here's the place to ask your questions.

I'll only speak to a couple of items that I may be able to help you with. Others will chime in and add more than what I can provide.

1. Take it easy (don't hurt yourself) while you're building up your numbers of push-ups. John Peterson posted yesterday or so about this. He said that Charles Atlas wanted his ADVANCED students to build up to 200 Atlas push-ups per day. And he had his students do these push-ups during various parts of the day to get to a total of 200.

2. As to "lack of desire." One effective way to motivate yourself is to sit down and write out a list of the benefits/results that you want from your workout programs. Then...clearly visualize what you want to look like in 6 months or so. When you're wavering about whether to start your exercises, bring back that clear, vivid (in color) picture of yourself six months from now.

One of the things I do is teach people how to motivate themselves to do what is really important to them. If you want even far stronger self-motivation on a consistent basis, just send me a private email (PM). (You can do that by clicking your cursor on the little circle to the right of my name on the left of this message. We can arrange a time to talk by phone if you want...because that's more effective. And this will be absolutely free as my gift to you.

Whether you want the extra help is up to you. I'll be happy to help. No problem either way.

OK...I'm sure you'll receive some excellent answers from others to your questions.

Again, welcome to the forum!

- Hank

[mike]

if you are working hard your body needs a little food before you workout in my opinion, but as far as large meals go i would reccomend you do most of your eating right after working out, when your body is really looking for those nutrients

[omad0n]

Yes, it was my post where I'm losing weight doing 500 every other day plus the climbing. My goals specifically to tone up and drop the fat that's around me. As others pointed out, it's a calorie thing. I believe how you structure your workout will sort of dictate how your body reacts to it. In so much as, if you look at how my workout is structured you might notice that I'm actually starting to get an aerobic workout as well, since I'm basically moving hard and taking in a lot of oxygen every 4 min. for an hour and 20min. to complete the set. Anyway, just some general thoughts, hope you continue to find what you're looking for. Also, I would recommend just a small piece of fruit or something before your morning workout if you're feeling dizzy. I generally will eat high protien after working out, usually a couple egg omelette with whatever i feel like putting in it.

[OzVegan]

Its all about TUT (Time Under Tension), high reps/volume exposes muscles to higher amounts of TUT which leads to growth.

TUT is important but whether you do high reps or super slow sets I believe you achieve the same results.

I used to do high-reps and then with some encouragement from Golfnut,SpiritWind and others I did an entire month of super slow pushups and pullups/chinups. That was a few months ago. I'm impressed with SSSs and it has lead to significant growth for me. My shoulders now outsize my bicep/triceps. Mentally it is really challenging but if you enjoy mental endurance I can highly recommend it.

I've done some studies on it (via Google of course :) ) and there are some who recommend doing a month of SSSs and then a month of High Reps to avoid plateauing. I did a short stint of SSSs and Explosives but didn't follow through with the explosive side.

[jaymo]

I would say:
Don't eat sugar.
Don't eat FLOUR, which is the SAME thing as sugar!
(The body metabolizes flour as SUGAR!)

Eat at least 2 cups of vegetables per day, and 2 cups of fruits!.

BLENDING these, via a Vitamix high speed blender is an EASY WAY to accomplish this; otherwise, just cook; and eat!

The Juice Drink Strategy outlines this approach...(by Jay Bowers)

Just substitute a meal per day with a blended, juice drink, and you are half way there!

Jay
vintagehealthandfitness.blogspot.com

[jaymo]

I would switch to almond butter!

Peanuts are legumes, and so, like all beans are bad for you! (See Paleodiet.com)

They contribute to "leaky gut syndrome" where evil toxins can migrate into your bloodstream and mess you up! Sounds crazy- my wife had Rosacea- eliminate beans, flour, sugar, and tomatoes- the Rosacea is GONE!

Grain is bad... beans are BAD... lean meats, seafood, vegetables and fruits are GREAT!

It really is that simple!

[DT man]

High volume will build endurance and definition, but can cause injury from overuse if taken to extreme. The best pushup for building size and power is the one used by Joe in his latest video. It creates a core workout that doesn't require a great deal of reps. If the ropes that support the leg bar can be raised and lowered to adjust the height of the legs, it can work the muscles from different angles as John suggested. I do a similar workout using steps on my deck. I use logs now after watching the video, but don't have a way yet to devise rope leg bar like he has. Give me time, I am working on it.