Bad knees, torn meniscus, help needed

[R.ticle One]

Hello friends,

I type this hoping that you can help.

I've got bad knees. They've given me pain on and off for a good part of my twenty six years. A few of those years ago, I tore the inner (I forget the medical term for "inner") meniscus on my left knee, and while it's been okay sometimes, I'm practically disabled when it flares up, such as it did recently.

According to an ultrasound I had done, the damage is to a piece about 1 mm wide. Very small, but very painful. Right now, I can hardly walk, and if I twist the wrong way before it resets itself or whatever it does, I've got to wait even longer before the horrible pain diminishes.

As for my other knee, it simply hurts - sometimes on the inner side, and otherwise, the general kneecap area.

What aggravated them most recently was biking. Okay, it was a heavy mountain bike, and I rode fast every day for a week or two, but only through town and on pavement, and then, *bam!*, my knees are like, "we don't like what you're doing, and we're going to show it by making you hobble!"

You can imagine that I find this immensely frustrating. They can also become painful from running, twisting, or heavy lifting (by which I mean working as a necessity, such as manual farm labor, not weight training). Thing is, I rely on being able to do these things, never mind that I enjoy doing them!

I've considered surgery for the meniscus but I'm a bit leary of it, having heard that the results don't always last, there's no guarantee it'll help, it may need to be redone and that it's not the most suitable for someone my age.

I don't want my knees to degenerate. It's obvious (at least, I see it as such) that there's something wrong with them, or the supporting structure. Right now I'm even having a hard time doing isometrics with my legs, but I hope that there's something I can do which will help.

I'm already getting anything naturally anti-inflammatory into me that I can, and think I have a pretty good grasp of what's out there, so what I'm really looking for are ideas, suggestions, routines and recommendations of what sorts of therapeutic exercises can help eliminate the pain and strengthen the entire knee(s) and surrounding areas.

I'll take isometric, or DVR/VRT or whatever. I really really appreciate your help, 'cause this is gettin' me down, and down is the last direction I need to go in right now!

Thanks tons,

Raphael

[revwally]

R,

My guess is that your doctor has told you to do RICE therapy (Rest, Ice, Compression, and Elevation). I know it is frustrating not to work out -- but if you don't follow your doctors advice, you can risk permanent injury.

After a couple of weeks, slowly try to enter into some other things -- but until then, what are the restrictions your doctor has given you? (that way we might make suggestions within those limits)

What does your doctor say about your chances with surgery?

Wally

[Geezer42]

Hi:
I'm new to this forum. I have been viewing the postings for years but decided to sign up and enter my 2 cents from time to time.
Re. the torn meniscus.
I had arthoscopic surgery on my knee about 11 years ago and it ok to this day.
The problem with a torn meniscus is that it doesn't heal on its own and if you don't get it fixed it can tear further and cause more problems as you get older. If you get a good orthopedic surgeon you should get good results. It's a fairly common surgery that is performed on an outpatient basis. I think you will be much happier if you get it done since the pain will probably never go away on its own.
If you want further information I will be glad to try and provide it.

[R.ticle One]

Hey Wally,

Actually, it's been a while, nay, years, since I've seen a Doctor about this - it happened years ago, and the last time I talked to a medical professional about it, surgery was recommended. (It's since been advised against by a physiotherapist that my mother has spoken with at her workplace). I was going to have surgery but was very reluctant, and the anaesthesiologist cancelled it the day of, on account of that I'd had some water to drink which could have interfered with the anaesthetic.

The last "official" word I had on this when the ultrasound was done, was along the lines of "it may well resolve on its own over time".

Sometimes it seems resolved, other times, something gets moved the wrong way and ow, ow, ow, ow!

There's also some pain on my right knee as I mentioned, also on the inner side of it, which leads me to believe that there's still some structural weakness to be addressed - I mean, people ride bikes every day for years, don't they? I'm not saying they never get sore, but I consider it abnormal that it should cause me such problems.

I admit I haven't been very strict with RICE therapy.

Don't know how much of what I told you helps, but if it does, I'd like to hear anything...

Thanks again!

Raph

[gruntbrain]

I had my knee surgeries over 40 years ago & they didn't really take. I hope modern surgery techniques have drastically improved. That said, I'm still able to perform daily squat/lunge cardio sessions with almost no pain; however, I usually avoid "unpredicatable: lower body athletic moves

[revwally]

R,

just some thoughts/recommendations (please remember I am just another forum member, with a dangerously small amount of medical knowledge -- definitely not to be taken with authority in medical matters)

Greg talked on his forum about doing VRT leg presses, and that helping his knee (or was it hip) pain. That seems like a good place to start.

Anytime one hurts one side of the body, the other compensates, which would explain your opposite side hurting.

wall sits, VRT leg lift (as Greg does on his DVD), and leg curls -- as well as GENTLE stretching may be in the range of possibility

Meniscus tears are very sensitive to sheering forces (i.e. twists and turns). That usually would mean that biking is OK, but mountain biking tends to put more side strain on the legs.

Personally, my right leg is still in moderate to dull pain. I had this happen from working toward doing pistols. My Doc said that I have changed my ligaments -- with foot alignment changing. My feet are now almost straight forward -- they were pointed out due to heavy squatting. Had I not chosen to change protocols, I probably would never have experienced any problems -- but for my the prescription was 3 -6 weeks almost no leg work, and taking 2 sodium naproxin 2X / day. That was a few months ago, and functionally I am now almost at full. I think the ligaments will have finished adjusting in another couple of months.

Personally I do the following things for legs 2X/week:
isometric squats, with a strap wrapped around my body
one leg wall sits --> 2 leg wall sits
DSR leg extension/leg curl
pistols only to bench

the isometric would be way too hard on your knees until they are built back up
if you do wall sits -- only brief times, and only two leg
if you do pistol type work -- only go down a short distance (6" to start) with something to sit on at bottom.

BE VERY GENTLE on your knee -- you don't want to end up without them being effective.

ALSO -- AGAIN -- check with your Dr.

Oh -- another thing that I personally like (but may not go deep enough for meniscus) is capszasin rubs.

hope this helps

Wally

[tom]

I had some meniscus problems.

I have only one recommendation: get professional help, lots of it, as many second opinions from professionals as possible, and you should not take any advice on the matter from forum members. Except me. And that's all I got.

Best of luck,
It will work out,
Happy to have you,
Tom

[revwally]

R,

Take note how often each of us has said something about seeing your doctor (or multiple doctors) This is something not to mess with -- since it has been a while since it was diagnosed -- you could hear some different recommendations from an ortho doc than you heard earlier.

wally

[gruntbrain]

It's noteworthy that physical therapists use isometrics as a knee rehab tool

[John Peterson]

Hey R.ticle One,

I have been reading this thread with great interest to see what some of our other friends have experienced personally and recommended as a result of their personal experience. One thing for certain, is that it is important that you seek medical attention for this particular condition. It may be that it can be treated far easier and with far less pain and discomfort than you may think.

One thing I learned long ago is that it is difficult to offer competent and personal advice about anything that we ourselves have not experienced. This is why even though I am a Naturopath I do not offer advice on any condition that requires a surgical (invasive) treatment. Non-surgical, non-invasive treatments certainly have their place but so do invasive, surgical treatments.


Please let us know how you progress R.ticle One. I'm praying for you my friend.

---John Peterson

[R.ticle One]

Hello everyone -

Thank you very much for the sound advice. As it stands/as I stand right now, my knees are feeling somewhat better. I've been taking it very easy on them the last few days, doing nothing more strenuous than careful walking, but I do not want to relegate myself to a lifelong necessity of exaggerated caution!

I can see that the overall opinion is to see someone professionally versed in the matter, and I tend to agree - for some reason I have this strange aversion to hospitals, it's weird, though I've had a surgery for something else in the past.

I have indeed heard of isometrics being used in rehab.

A search on rehabilitative exercises for meniscal damage yielded, on one physiotherapy website, a number of weightless movements, such as pressing down with the leg onto the ground with the thigh muscles, leg raises, from on the back, on the side, and on the stomach, etc.

I guess if there's anything I'll try anything until I get to a specialist, it will be these ones. They seem the very gentlest, and I'll proceed cautiously, taking note of how I feel.

Wally, indeed, I have wondered if a post-diagnosis recommendation would be any different now than in the past, given the time that has gone by since it first happened.

John, thanks for the prayer, and to everyone for your advice and concern! I'll let you all know how things progress.

Best,

Raph