John, Does The Bible Teach Vegetarianism?

[John Peterson]

Hey Friends,

I received an e-mail from a man whose friend has become a Seventh Day Adventist. His friend's life has been profoundly changed for the better as a result of embracing his new faith. Of late his friend has been trying to convince him that The Bible teaches strict adherence to Vegetarianism. So he e-mailed me asking if that is true.

Here's the deal. A perfectly balanced Vegetarian Diet can have a powerful and beneficial effect on any persons overall state of Health, Strength & Fitness. In fact, in the Bible there is a good example of this as outlined in the Book of Daniel Chapter One:

1 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. 2 And the Lord delivered Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, along with some of the articles from the temple of God. These he carried off to the temple of his god in Babylonia [a] and put in the treasure house of his god.

3 Then the king ordered Ashpenaz, chief of his court officials, to bring in some of the Israelites from the royal family and the nobility- 4 young men without any physical defect, handsome, showing aptitude for every kind of learning, well informed, quick to understand, and qualified to serve in the king's palace. He was to teach them the language and literature of the Babylonians. 5 The king assigned them a daily amount of food and wine from the king's table. They were to be trained for three years, and after that they were to enter the king's service.

6 Among these were some from Judah: Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah. 7 The chief official gave them new names: to Daniel, the name Belteshazzar; to Hananiah, Shadrach; to Mishael, Meshach; and to Azariah, Abednego.

8 But Daniel resolved not to defile himself with the royal food and wine, and he asked the chief official for permission not to defile himself this way. 9 Now God had caused the official to show favor and sympathy to Daniel, 10 but the official told Daniel, "I am afraid of my lord the king, who has assigned your [c] food and drink. Why should he see you looking worse than the other young men your age? The king would then have my head because of you."

11 Daniel then said to the guard whom the chief official had appointed over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah, 12 "Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see." 14 So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days.

15 At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. 16 So the guard took away their choice food and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead.

[B]NOW, in spite of the obvious benefits outlined in the above scriptures, I don't think that one can make a valid argument that the whole of scripture teaches that one must be a strict Vegetarian. Consider what the Apostle Paul said as relates to this specific issue in Romans 14:1-4,

Do Not Pass Judgment on One Another

14:1 "As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master [1] that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand."

Bottomline: I personally believe that a perfectly balanced Lacto-Ovo Vegetarian Diet is the healthiest of all. My friend Rod Fisher, whom I greatly admire believes that a Vegan Diet is even better and he may be right. But in terms of whether or not the Bible actually teaches one way or the other exclusively, well, I think God's Word leaves that up to the discretion of the individual to do what is best for him or her. So for that reason I do not think that it is wise to make it a matter of strict church doctrine. That my friends, is just my take.

---John Peterson

[monty]

John,


Here is a website that claims 100s of people have overcome many diseases due to a Vegan diet.


Rev Malkmus uses Gen 1:29 to back up his claim. He had cancer so bad it was protruding out of his stomach he went Vegan after watching his mother suffer form sick care and his cancer disappered. He is in his 70s and looks great.

This is the link to his story and website. Their are a ton of testamonials on how many have overcome cancer and other ailments.

http://www.hacres.com/about/history

Monty

[John Peterson]

Hey Monty,

WOW! Life changing to say the least. Thanks for posting that link. I'm giving this more and more thought myself.

---John Peterson

[MikeNY]

My grandmother and many older Italian born women were what we'd now call vegan's, she'd cook meat and serve it to her family; but she never ate it. That veganism was fairly common; but I think it was cultural and might have been done for health.

Grandma was older and Hospiltalized; found to be diabetic and had never suffered from the disease, my aunts thought it was because she was a vegetarian that she'd never needed medication nor treatment. But she did not eat candy, sugar, refined foods, Commerical canned foods, she did eat lots of garlic, onions, fresh vegtables, canned her own vegetables, cerals and used herbs and spices and drank mostly fresh water and some tea. She made coffee for the family, used a special frying pan to cook the beans, and a mortor to grind the grains and brew it fresh, I can not recall her ever drinking coffee.

There is a Mederterrian wide enbrace of simple, wholesome foods, and my grandmother was Catholic but eat Kosher foods and it had a Biblical and Cultural conponent.

I tried being a total vegetarian for a few months; and was moody and short tempered, it did not agree with me, made me aggressive. It is not for all people.

Monty great site! Very interesting

[duff]

I ate vegetarian for 11 years, largely because I found out how animals were "manufactured" for our consumption in giant factory farms. Since that time there has been some improvement in so-called "organic" meats, but at the time there were few alternatives, and almost nobody was talking about the many problems--including massive animal cruelty--occuring in industrialized meat production. (BTW, I'm not necessarily opposed to hunting or fishing which often are intelligently designed to manage overpopulation of wild animals. Factory farms are a different issue altogether, often involving animals raised from birth in such disgusting conditions that any hunter would find repulsive and cruel.)

I stopped eating vegetarian due to some health problems related to poor digestion (found out I was allergic to soy, which had been my #1 protein source) and fatigue. Eating meat helped greatly with both.

I don't eat much meat or animal products now and I try to only eat "organic" and "free range" meats and eggs, but I do think about perhaps trying vegetarianism again--this time without the soy products.

I think the claims for vegetarian diets can be true for some people (especially for heart disease and diabetes, for which there are specific plans that have been studied), but I never found my health increasing radically, and in fact over time it got worse! But hey, give it a shot and try for yourself.

Also realize that one can eat very unhealthfully on a diet that is technically vegetarian--the so-called "junk food vegetarians" who eat soy ice cream en mass, etc. My diet was not particularly healthy for many years, even though I avoided animal products. The recommendations in John's books (e.g. GUTS and M7) are an intelligent foundation for any diet whether vegan, vegetarian, or omnivore.

I think perhaps the main benefits people get from trying a new diet is thinking consciously about their health and nutrition --which usually involves cutting out junk--and eating new, healthy foods. Most people eat the same things over and over and lack certain nutrients in their diet as a result. Eating more variety and cutting out the junk periodically can perk up one's health regardless of the dietary change.

[Daniel]

I have been following a Vegetarian diet for about 4 months and I have committed myself to at least one full year to see how I feel, anyone who thinks you cannot get strong and healthy on a Vegetarian diet is crazy, one of the best examples is Mike Mahler, this guy is a Vegan and he is a beast. You also have MMA fighter Jake Shields who is the the Strike Force Champion, he is born and raised vegetarian, this guy is so strong its not funny. The thing is alot of fighters MMA, Boxing and kick boxers are following a vegetarian diet nowdays because of the increase in their performance, its documented scientifically that a vegetarian diet is optimal for endurance. Its a myth that we need meat and that meat is healthy, the facts are its not and we just have to look at the statistics, cancer rates and heart disease are higher then ever.

[April]

John 6
53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." 59He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

In the Levitical sacrificial system, the priests ate the meat from the sacrifices. God specified which meats were clean or unclean. As far as I can tell, God never forbade eating meat. In fact, Jesus, as the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world to take away the sins of the world, commands His followers to eat His flesh and drink His blood. In a previous post I already talked about why it is okay to drink His blood. In the case of why He commands His followers to eat His flesh, the priests may eat the roasted sacrifice. I see no indication whatsoever in the New Testament that eating meat is forbidden.

My personal opinion is that the modern teachings about not eating meat are a subtle deception of the enemy in order to get people to feel a repulsion to Jesus teachings. If people are forbidden from eating meat, they also cannot eat the flesh of the Son of Man. Notice that Eastern religions and New Age teaching are often against the eating of meat. I see this as a spiritual and symbolic message to keep people from eating the flesh of the Son of God. Of course we cannot literally eat His flesh, but the enemy will use any tactic to discourage people from following the Lord, so the message is that we should not even symbolically feed on Him either. I suppose there is a lot more to it than I have written.

Samson was forbidden from eating anything from the vine, as well as wine and strong drink. However, his strength really came from his separation to God, from not cutting his hair in the Nazarite vow.

As a few people have said, they tried various kinds of natural diets and some worked for them and others didn't. We are all individual and need to find what works for our particular body chemistry, which may change as well as we age (from my experience).

Sorry for the long post. I am trying to add some balance to the discussion, but maybe I did the opposite.

[Greg Newton]

As to vegetarian diets being healthy; one must be very careful to eat organic foods and to make sure you are getting B-12, iron, and trace minerals in the diet. I say this from personal experience. Just to stop eating meat can be disasterous to your health. I looked like an AIDS victim and suffered from chronic fatigue.

What a lot of people don't realize, is that our soil is so devitalized that we get our necessary trace minerals from the meat we eat, which is fed to livestock to keep them alive. Free range animals in our part of the country, the southeastern USA, who are not fed a salt block (sea salts and minerals) have joint diseases and die from a lack of nutrition. The problem has to do with soil depletion.

As to the Bible teaching vegetarianism, it does not. If you study Genesis, man and animals were originally to be vegetarian. Due to the curse of sin, death came into the world. Later, after the Flood, due the change in the earth's environment, the Lord gave man the right to eat flesh. This is Genesis, chapter 9 from the NIV:

1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

If you are wise about how you do it, I believe vegetarianism can be a healthy way to go, and as John pointed out, there are Biblical precedents. However, the Bible doesn't teach vegetarianism as a moral precept.

Greg

[John Peterson]

Hey Friends,

Some great points are being made in this thread. Now, one point I want to make is that if you look at the scriptures from Daniel it does not specify what kind of meat was being served to the young men in the King's service in Babylon. I mention this because it is conceivable to me that the reason Daniel and his friends may have been unwilling to eat it was because it was meat from ceremonially unclean animals like pigs.

AND GREG NEWTON is right on the mark when he states that before man's fall as documented in the Book of Genesis, that man as well all animals were vegetarian. I absolutely believe the Genesis account. And for that reason I believe that if we were living in a perfectly controlled environment such as Eden that being vegetarian would be totally right and natural. Even today, it would be much easier to be a vegetarian in a perfect environment like Hawaii as opposed to Alaska just due to the difference in environmental factors alone. Also consider that when Artist George Catlin painted the Native American Plains Tribes in the 1830's and documented their lives he often mentioned their exceptional strength, fitness, and physique. This was especially true of the Cheyenne whom he said were the most beautiful people that he had ever seen. I mention this because none of the plains tribes were vegetarian and all of them relied on Bison meat as their main food source.

Bottom line: A healthy diet is a well chosen one whether one is a strict vegetarian or not.

---John Peterson

[MikeNY]

I wasn't clear my grandmother knew she was a diabetic for decades and never needed treatment nor medication. She was tall and slim naturaly and stayed healthy through her very strict diet. Her family had converted from Judaism to Catholic and she maintained a Mederterrian Shepardic kosher diet. Her candy was pickels, and pickled vegetables that she loved, and simple food. But as noted here in this thread people with heart disease or dibeties can impact the disease through diet and that is a blessing.

[Viking Dan]

It seems to say we're allowed to eat meat:

Genesis 9


So God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth.
And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand.
Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.

[John Peterson]

Hey Viking Dan,

Those are the same scriptures that Greg Newton cited and they obviously 'mean what they mean' . However, during the Exodus from Egypt the Kosher dietary laws were given and observed very strictly. One thing I know for certain is that observing the kosher dietary laws will protect a person from parasitic illnesses and other problems too. But if you read the passages early in the book of Genesis as relates to man before the fall it is clear that Adam and Eve were fruitarians.

---John Peterson

[ShrinkingGuy]

Quite right John.

One thing to consider is the context. Man wasn't allowed to eat meat at all until the earth had literally been destroyed by flood.

The Jeudeo-Christian current didn't yet exist at the time of Noah. That is to say, the Jewish people and the covenant that was made for them, sprang from the fountain of Abraham's loins and the relationship his decendents (biological and spiritual) cultivated with G-d. In other words, just as the Law for Adam in Paradise was different than the Law for Noah, the Law for us is different again and off the yoke so to speak.... In fact the Law for Noah was different pre and post-flood.

While one could make the argument that until the Covenant of Moses, man was allowed to eat pork, you can't find an example of it happening in either "Old" or New Testament.

Clean animals G-d himself would accept as a sacrifice are described as multiple times as being used for food.


Abraham gave a calf to his servant, and he killed it and offered it to his visitors, together with bread, cakes, butter and milk. (Gen. 18:5-8).
Esau went out hunting venison and gave it to his father Isaac to eat. (Gen. 25:27-28).
Jacob killed two goats and gave some of the meat to his father Isaac as an act of deception, to impersonate his brother Esau. (Gen. 27:9-25).
Jacob claimed that he was not indebted to Laban because he had not eaten the rams of his flock. It was therefore customary to eat rams. (Gen. 31:38).
The Israelites ate the Passover lamb before they came out of Egypt. (Exodus 12).


So clearly even before the Mosaic covenant there was a concious effort by the patriarchs to abstain from unclean meat, even though, for a time, it was allowed. Part of this is health, but also consider how obedient these animals are. You can herd a sheep, cow, goat, etc. But a pig...well they require a pen. You can't herd them. They are wild, willful and disobediant creatures. G-d wouldn't accept such a sacrifice.

Then there is the idea of clean and unclean. If I am wearing clean white garments and brush a dirty wall, does the wall become purified, or do I become soiled?

In the new Temple which the returned Jesus Christ will construct, all the sacrificial animals conform to the Laws of Clean and Unclean (Ezekiel 43). An instruction to the Priests and Levites who will officiate in those days in the future is "They must teach the people the difference between what is sacred and what is unconsecrated, and show them how to distinguish what is unclean and what is clean" (ch. 44:23).

And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand.

At the end of the day I have to live with my personal answer to two questions on food:

If they are given into my hand, do I not have a responsibiltity to steward them responsibly?
Does supporting factory farming reflect my best effort to meet my obligation to the creations of G-d?

[Aaron Hoot]

Hey my friends, there are some great posts here and some good insight. While our diet did drastically change after the fall of man, I still think that it is good to limit the amount of meat that you eat. While I don't think that it is a sin to eat it, I do think that it is a sin to abuse it.

Aaron

[ShrinkingGuy]

Aaron I agree completely.

I try to live an Edenic life, so I am a vegetarian and try to stay to raw as much as is possible.
Fire never dwelt in the Garden, but was placed in the east to separate us from it.

Genesis 3:24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

But I do not believe that those that eat meat are in sin in any way.

I do think the idea that Man was the curator of the Garden and responsible to the creatures that lived there was planted early on, so I try to make my decisions that affect creatures of Creation as compassionately as possible.

[JoeJustice]

Cromwell, the Dead Sea Scrolls were/are a library of texts, not a text in and of themselves. Some of the contents were apocryphal and some canonical.

I've never read anywhere that Jesus was associated with eating raw food, so I'm curious which text contained that information.

-Joe

[JoeJustice]

Szekely's documents were not the Dead Sea Scrolls. They were "hidden manuscripts" that no one other than himself has seen. The Vatican also denies he was ever admitted at the time he claimed to have discovered them. Not only that but that fact that none of the canonical Scriptures make allusions to this kind of "natural" lifestyle just seems a bit fishy to me.

I don't believe the "Gospel Of Peace" is real.

-Joe

[John Peterson]

Hey Cromwell,

The Third Century BCE would have been before our Lord had incarnated. However, if you re-read what you wrote, "In this text, which is noticeably absent from our modern bible, Jesus spells out a lifestyle which resembles that which today we call "Natural Hygiene," including a raw foods diet, water fasting, clearly a vegetarian diet, and an admonition to do no harm to other forms of life. We can see some of the same lifestyle today with the Seventh Day Adventists." No doubt but that this would be a very healthy lifestyle. In fact, this sounds very much like what had in fact been a reality in the Garden of Eden before man's fall.

But here's the deal. The are practical reasons for eating a good and natural organic vegetarian based diet. Nobody needs to use his or her religion to force other people to be vegetarians. For instance, I really don't see how one could objectively argue that if we eat a natural and organic vegetarian based diet with as much raw and unrefined food as possible, and that is properly balanced that we could help but benefit immensely and be far healthier. Yet at the same time, I don't think that it is right to make a religious doctrine out of these issues. Consider what the Apostle Paul stated in his letter to Timothy in Chapter 4, 1 Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons, 2 through the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are seared. 3 They forbid marriage and demand abstinence from foods that God created to be received with gratitude by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing should be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 since it is sanctified by the word of God and by prayer." And then in Romans 14:20-21, Paul states; "Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for any one to make others fall by what he eats; it is right not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that makes your brother stumble."

Bottom line: In all areas of our lives we should desire to do the right thing because it is the right thing. From experience, doing the right thing always yields that most amount of benefit for every person and makes life much happier and more fulfilling.

---John Peterson

P.S. One reason I keep emphasizing that "Natural, organic, and perfectly balanced vegetarianism is a key to super health, is because one can also be a completely unbalanced vegetarian and an absolute nut case. For instance, in one of the books I read on Adolph Hitler it stated Hitler drank upwards of 20 tiny cups of coffee each day that each had six cubes of sugar in them and that he also loved to eat cream puffs. Knowing that, is it any wonder that Hitler was a manic/ depressive that could not control his own emotional state?

[JoeJustice]

John,

What Cromwell is referring to is Edmond Bordeaux Szekely's Gospels, which he said came from hidden text, published in the 1920's. They had a lot of information on hygiene and diet. Years later when the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, many of the concepts of the Essene were similar to his own. The Essene lived in the third century BCE. Szekely adopted the Essene ideas as in line with his own.

-Joe

[ShrinkingGuy]

John I agree.

I hope nobody here took my post to be anything other than my personal answer to personal questions based on my best effort to serve G-d by word and deed.

I openly share my faith, beliefs and conclusions with anyone, but I am fully aware that G-d calls men differently. Elisha was led to shave his head, and Samson to let his hair grow long.

What would the Body of G-d's church be, if it were made of nothing but feet?

[John Peterson]

Hey friends,
Please don't read my post as me coming down hard on anyone because that is simply not the case. I just don't want anyone to feel as though they can't measure up spiritually speaking because of the fact that they may enjoy eating meat because such is not the case. There are however other bigger issues that cause spiritual separation.

Now let me make a further point. Of late I have seen two incredible video documentaries 1) Food Inc. and 2) Fresh both of which reveal the truth about the commercial food industry and how animals in particular are raised and slaughtered for food consumption. In both instances it was clear that animals are being raised in the most filthy and deplorable conditions imaginable. Believe me, PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) is right on the mark as relates to this issue. In fact, in many cases animals that are sick are slaughtered and knowingly put into the food supply. Bottom line: from my perspective there are more and more valid reasons for everyone to be certain that the food they eat is natural and organic and raised in the best, safest, and most sanitary conditions possible. This is especially true for those that consume meat in their daily diet. Which brings up another point. If you do eat meat try to find a local organic grower that does things the natural way with no antibiotics or growth hormone injections. It is well worth the additional cost.

---John Peterson

[Daniel]

John keep an eye out for this doco Planeat...

http://vimeo.com/3018137

[Daniel]

Another interesting biblical quote on Vegetarianism..

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat". Genesis 1:29

Jesus may have been a Vegan who knows.....


Daniel

[hrerikl]

I just never could picture Jesus putting a knife to an animals throat.

Look At what Jesus Fed the 4000.

In Luke 5, Jesus miraculously helps simon and Company with a record catch of fish.
In Luke 24, Jesus clearly eats fish.

It can also be understood that under the Passover law Lamb was to be prepared at Jesus's direction

9 Then the LORD said to Moses, 10 "Tell the Israelites: 'When any of you or your descendants are unclean because of a dead body or are away on a journey, they may still celebrate the LORD's Passover. 11 They are to celebrate it on the fourteenth day of the second month at twilight. They are to eat the lamb, together with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. 12 They must not leave any of it till morning or break any of its bones. When they celebrate the Passover, they must follow all the regulations. 13 But if a man who is ceremonially clean and not on a journey fails to celebrate the Passover, that person must be cut off from his people because he did not present the LORD's offering at the appointed time. That man will bear the consequences of his sin.

Jesus observed the passover feast

7Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover."
9"Where do you want us to prepare for it?" they asked.

10He replied, "As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters, 11and say to the owner of the house, 'The Teacher asks: Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?' 12He will show you a large upper room, all furnished. Make preparations there."

13They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover.

14When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer.