Estrogen/Testosterone balances

[isodude]

Reading the thread about Joe J's AWESOME transformation and accomplishment, I would like to hear more about the estrogen/testoterone balance issue. What is that all about? How do you fight it, how does it occur? Please EXPOUND!!!!! :) Thanks for the inspiration Joe.

David

[Hank_Z]

I'm with David. I'd love to know more about the practical implications and what to do and not do.:highfive:

- Hank

[JoeJustice]

Well, John can expand on this. I'll give you my understanding, but I'm no doctor so take it for what it's worth.

There are a few hormones that are key to control in your body when it comes to weight loss and fitness; estrogen, testosterone, cortisol and adrenalin. Estrogen and cortisol are the one's you want to mitigate. Fat in men stores estrogen and cortisol leads to the storage of fat. High levels of estrogen limit muscle growth and cling to fat storage. Cortisol is used to deal with stress (physical and emotional). Testosterone builds muscle and adrenalin give you energy and burns fat.

I'm not sure of all the bio-mechanical properties of these hormones and how they work. But I think I got the thumbnail sketch there correct. Someone with more knowledge may want to correct me.

Basically speaking, adrenaline spikes about 7 minutes into intense exercise. Testosterone spikes 27 minutes into intense exercise. After that point - 27 minutes - cortisol beings to rise. High estrogen is more of a chronic issues because it builds along with high body fat. Now, both testosterone and adrenaline are supply and demand hormones! This is key, this is what makes they difference. In other words your actions are what release them. Lots of things from intense exercise to sex will release these hormones.

So you want an exercise routine that will demand the hormones so your glands will supply them. Grease the Groove is a good one because you have short sessions demanding hormones frequently. The twice a day training is another good one. But long runs are no good because they use up that testosterone for endurance and build cortisol which creates fat which stores estrogen. You see the pattern?

So bottom line, in my opinion, is to focus on strength training and keep it fairly short; 45 minutes MAX and 30 minutes is better. Also train frequently, to get that spike of good hormones which will get everything in a healthy balance. One last thing to add is if you are training short and frequently, don't train to failure. As Charles Atlas said, "Train don't strain." I think that helps in recovery. I think if you go too intense too often, you won't be able to adequately recover. I've been training a few weeks now twice a day for 30 minutes and have had no problems with muscle ache or joint pain.

-Joe

[isodude]

I appreciate that....JOHN!!! Love to hear what you have to say too....

This makes good sense, as to why I don't see much progress myself. I'm going to go for trying the 27 min sessions or so unless there is any better advice.

[John Peterson]

hey Guys,

I'm a Naturopath and not a medical doctor. So if you are really concerned and need to have blood work done to determine where you are at you can certainly do that. But you need to have that done by a medical doctor. However, in a practical sense it's easy to see visually when you know what you are looking for. For instance, I could literally see from Joe's photo's the changes in his hormonal balance and literally told him when it was that he totally had his Testosterone balance exactly right on the money. At the point he began making gains as never before. And everything Joe states about exercise intensity and time committed is right on the mark. Good job Joe:highfive:.

Now for many of you guys that are concerned about this, there is a great deal of very technical information that is easily accessible on the internet and I recommend that you check it out if you are really curious. But in terms practical application, there are certain supplements that help remove Estrogen while enhancing natural Testosterone production in a big way. The best that I am aware of at the present time is 6-OXO by ERGO (that is of course until we get our own NUTRI-PRIMA version out there).

Finally, I take the same approach here with regards to supplementation that I take with the exercise methods that I teach. In other words, let's just keep it as clear and simple as possible. it doesn't need to be rocket science. And in fact, it shouldn't be.

---John Peterson

[JoeJustice]

No, I've never had any kind of hormone tests.

What John has said is 100% correct. I posted my latest picture and he said, "Whoa, John, what's going on there? Looks like you've finally burned off all the excess estrogen. You're going to start really making gains now." (paraphrasing) And it was exactly that week that I was first able to get 8 chin-ups consistently for the first time! And all of my other numbers were going up and my stomach had finally shrunk under 37" for the first time. All of that was just about a month ago.

What had I been doing for the month before? I dropped cardio except for 3 short sessions a week and was doing a full body training routine for about 45 minutes every single day. This was a dramatic change from the training I was doing.

John literally spotted it exactly when it happened and then a light click on in my head and I said, "Maybe the man knows what he's talking about." :act-up:

-Joe

[tydoron]

I'm a second year medical student at an osteopathic college. No expert, but I'll give it a try. Testosterone is the hormone that makes men men. It is responsible for secondary sexual characteristics like facial hair, and it is responsible for sex drive and is involved in fertility. It is also responsible for our increased muscle mass and decreased body fat relative to women. Estrogen is what maks women women in similar ways. Higher levels of estrogens, specifically estradiol, in men are unhealthy and cause increased fat deposition and decreased muscle mass amongst other things. Now here's the interesting part. Fat cells contain an enzyme calle aromatase that converts testosterone to estrogen. So fat begets fat if you see what I mean. In terms of optimal levels, you can have blood tests and reference ranges will show up on the lab reports

[Hank_Z]

No, I've never had any kind of hormone tests.
...And it was exactly that week that I was first able to get 8 chin-ups consistently for the first time! And all of my other numbers were going up and my stomach had finally shrunk under 37" for the first time. All of that was just about a month ago.

What had I been doing for the month before? I dropped cardio except for 3 short sessions a week and was doing a full body training routine for about 45 minutes every single day. This was a dramatic change from the training I was doing.
-Joe

Joe, excellent explanation of the hormones and their practical implications. Thanks!

Question: When you dropped cardio to 3 short sessions a week, what were they? How short were they?

Also, what did you primarily use that month for your "full body training routine"?

- Hank

[kenpopaul]

Hi all,

Interesting subject. I was wondering how HIT fit's into this? As I'm following a HIT program and therefore only train twice a weight High Intensity. Anyone know how this effects the hormone's??

Royce? Any insight?

Kenpopaul

[JoeJustice]

Hank,

I was doing 20 minutes or so of jogging Mon, Wed and Fri.

For a full body routine, I think what John lays out in PYTP is a really good style and that is basically just picking an exercise from each chapter and just working your way through the body. That's pretty much what I do now, but I do my own sequence of body parts. So I'd say make a list of body parts you want to work and then go down that list. Example:


Compound push
Compound pull
Triceps
Biceps
Shoulders
Core
Legs


Now for the workout you just walk down that list...


Atlas Push-ups
Standard Pull-Ups
M7 Wrist Twist
M7 One Arm Chin
M7 High Reach
Atlas Leg Lifts
Atlas Squats


Now it will take me around 10 minutes to complete that sequence. So I can either do 3 cycles of this sequence or just do three different exercises per body part, which is what I usually do.

This is just one sequence. The sequence laid out in PYTP is great too. Currently, I've split my routine up to do core and legs in the morning and upper body in the evening so I have enough time to do 4 cycles per body part.

A word or caution: If you do start training like this, stick with it. When you first start it will be a little difficult, don't push yourself too hard, especially in the first week. Once you get into the routine you can begin to push it a little harder but if you kill yourself with every workout and workout every single day, then you won't stick with it, you'll give up because it's too hard. But if you do stick with it and ease into it then I think you'll be rewarded for the efforts. :)

-Joe

[Hank_Z]

Joe,

Thanks for laying this out in a very clear manner. I really like the idea of splitting the daily workout into two 30-minute sessions. One of the reasons is testosterone/estrogen rationale. I honestly admit to having "man-boobs"...but I'm pretty dang tired of them. Since starting Tranformetrics I've developed muscles that I can feel beneath the fat. But I want to go the next level and burn that fat away. I know that nutrition is also very important.

I also appreciate your admonition not to push too hard at first. Sticking to the routines is what will be important.

Joe, I don't know what kind of work you do, but you have a way of clearly explaining things. You've taken John's PYTP and developed routines based on that and M7. The variation that you built into your routines...such as using three different exercises for each body part...should help a person stick to a routine like this.

It's interesting to see the credibility that you've created. You and John both have great credibility, and yours is very different from his. John is the epitome of a lifetime of this kind of training. He's amazing and inspiring, but I can't yet picture myself at anything close to the level he's reached through decades of training.

You are someone that I can totally identify with. As I recall, you were pretty much out of shape not all that long ago. What you've achieved this year and in recent months is remarkable. And you've simply taken what John has written, applied it to yourself, and have done the work.

Thanks for what you share on this thread and others, Joe.:highfive:

- Hank

[JoeJustice]

Not really sure what you mean by "hormone switch". I don't think I used any terms like that. I've just described my experiences, feel free to draw whatever conclusion you wish from them :)

-Joe

[John Peterson]

Hey Clark Kent,

I'm certain of the fact that Joe had burned off the estrogen that was holding him back. This is why he was suddenly able to make fantastic gains after he got to a stalemate at a certain point. This is also something that a close friend of mine that is a medical doctor and I have discussed on numerous occasions. In Dr, Thompson's case he loved my Transformetrics Training System but was frustrated by not being able to lose as much fat from around his waistline as he wanted. So to accomplish his objective I convinced him to completely stop running for one month and to start including daily Isometrics(Both varieties from IPR) into his program. In addition, I convinced him to take 6 capsules of 6-OXO each night along with 2 Boron capsules. 6-OXO was created to neutralize estrogen while dramatically enhancing natural testosterone production. After 2 weeks I did not have to convince Dr. Thompson any further because he could literally see and feel the difference as his strength went through the roof. Doc Thompson went from 3 Pull-Ups to 8 inside of six weeks. He eventually achieved the number that had been his lifetime goal of 12 reps at the age of 53. Something he had never achieved previously.

Bottomline: When excessive estrogen is neutralized the difference that a man feels is immediate in terms of his physical strength and Virile powers. Anyone that doesn't want to believe me is welcome to their opinion but I've seen the difference too many times not to know that it is absolutely 100% true. Depressing the estrogen while simultaneously enhancing testosterone has a tremendous effect that even provides a psychological boost.

---John Peterson

[vegetus25]

I read this article the other day and thought you might find it interesting.

[JoeJustice]

I read this article the other day and thought you might find it interesting.

????

A link mayhap?

-Joe

[vegetus25]

I was in bed last night and it hit me I probably did not post a link. Here it is:


http://www.mikemahler.com/articles/andropause.html

[JoeJustice]

vegetus25,

That article has some good information in it. We haven't even touched the nutritional side of the whole hormone balance issue. That's a discussion all it's own and there are tons and tons of opinions on that front. But in general, avoid processed foods and get healthy supplies of proteins and fats and you'll have your bases covered. Organic food helps too, I don't eat organic as much as I should :thinking:

I think a big problem a lot of people run into is trying to restrict macronutrients. Extreme low carb diets and extreme low fat diets are not the way to go, in my opinion. Moderation and balance.

But again, nutrition is a complex discussion with lots of opinions. PYTP's and M7's nutritional information is a great place to start.

-Joe