John, What do You Think of Celibacy?

[John Peterson]

Hey Friends,

A man e-mailed me asking what I think of celibacy as a lifestyle. The short answer: It's over rated. Seriously though, I can't think of anything that would be more unnatural for me. On the other hand, I can see that a single man that is celibate will never have to worry about catching a venereal disease. BUT then again if a man is married to healthy woman and still practices celibacy I'd say that he must be crazy.

---John Peterson

[JoeJustice]

BUT then again if a man is married to healthy woman and still practices celibacy I'd say that he must be crazy.


Crazy with a capital K!

-Joe
:tongue:

[Max McKinley]

BUT then again if a man is married to healthy woman and still practices celibacy I'd say that he must be crazy.


And biblically in error (to be polite about it)

[Paul Smith]

Interesting thread.

I do not practice celibacy but would be interested to know if anyone has relevant thoughts on or experiences with the following.

Some theorize that celibacy was orginally practiced (as a form of secret knowledge) by the elite in order to build up, harness and direct the natural sexual energy in order to perfect body, mind and spirit, including incredible physical feats. This is mentioned by Napoleon Hill in "Think & Grow Rich." He referes to it as "Sex Transmutation." There are many other references to this throughout works from the East. Contemporary author Mantak Chia, in "The Multi-Orgasmic Male," advocates orgasm without ejaculation so as not to waste or dissipate the energy through the expelling of semen. I, wonder, if this is where the custom of having athletes (boxers?) abstain from sexual activity prior to an event? I also wonder if priests, monks, etc originallly practiced it for this same reason with the true rationale becoming lost over the centuries?

Comments, especially those who seem to have an interest in the body's energy and nerve force would be welcome.

Paul

[Jon Stone]

Paul,


Ive read that book and I agree with Mantak Chia that its not celibacy thats important, but ejaculation control is. Ive been working on this for awhile to no avail, but nonetheless, you loe your essence and nerve force through excessive ejaculation. Have you had any luck with it?

[radtek31]

For various reasons, I am a lifelong practitioner of celibacy and chastity; i.e., no wife, no children. As a start, marriage has a base 50% chance of unhappiness. How many of you would invest in a business or other venture that had those odds? By the Christian ethic, unhappiness is not grounds for divorce, only unfaithfulness; once you're in, you're in for life. Think also of the children, living in a biblically faithful home that has no love between the founders of it, what will be their opinion of a loving God and his commandments?
Celibate, I can make plans at a moment's notice to help people or participate in a project, without having to worry about how it will effect someone else, and as a volunteer coach I 'm in a better position to help kids who have no dad, even if they do have a sperm donor living in the house with them.
But what works for me may not work for everyone else. I have to be careful not to confuse alone for lonely, and vice versa. That being said, being from Louisiana I do have one tool to help me; the Parochial Boy's Prayer:

"Saint Joseph, Patron of Cold Showers, Pray for Us."

[duff]

Another interesting take on the subject is Cupid's Poisoned Arrow: From Habit to Harmony in Sexual Relationships by Marnia Robinson. She recommends karezza between monogamous couples (sex without orgasm) and lots of "bonding behaviors" for maximum long-term relationship harmony, citing studies of post-orgasm dopamine balance being thrown off for 7-14 days. I think her conclusions may be a bit too far in the direction of celibacy for some, but she poses an interesting "middle ground" and encourages people to see what works best for them.

[sillypup]

nothing wrong with it in my opinion if it's one's choice rather than pressure by a certain group in society.
many people practice it temporary as a soul searching journey or energy training during important foundational training such as tai chi to get a big jump start in progress. key word, temporary.

it's really about balance with everything right? too much sex can drain a person's energy if they don't get enough rest and food. hence lower their immune system prone to illness.

diseases are really a big motivation for people to be celibate nowadays. there are people who pass on diseases on purpose nowadays. then it gets a chain reaction with people who don't even know they have caught diseases and pass it on.

i was celibate during my intense training with chi kung and tai chi in my younger days for several months to a year. it does make a difference in one's progress. it's really about the stored energy. when one have sex there is energy exchange and often the partner will absorb one partner's energy. mainly female take the male's energy as they are receptive during sex and male will get drained as their intent is more outward projection. mind intention right? so that is one reason why in eastern tao sex practices they teach the male to not ejaculate so the energy stays with them. supposedly both should do some practices where they share and circulate the energy so both are more energetic. female and male chi should be mix. it makes a synergistic effect. so yes. a person must be KRAZY!! if they have a healthy partner and they aren't intimate with each other. to get the benefits of opposite gender's energy one don't necessary need to have intercourse. as long as you have skin contact or touch one can easily transfer energy. heck one can be energy vampires too if one is close enough. i'm sure you folks knows some people who just drains the energy off you just be being around them.

look at kundalini sex practices. it's more about stimulating sexual energy and circulating it among partners rather then the ejaculation. ejaculation isn't orgasm. many males confuse the two. they also focus on sex as a tool for spiritual growth.

I guess it all depends on your purpose of sex that makes a difference

[ShrinkingGuy]

I was celibate for 7 years. It wasn't so much an altruistic choice for my soul, but after my first wife vanished with all of my $$$ two weeks in, leaving me homeless and bankrupt....I just wasn't in a place where women appealed to me, to keep it polite.

It was a spiritual disease that was healed when Shelley was sent to me. Love at first sight, two dates and we were married....8 years ago. We still say, "You hang up first!" LOL
We make our friends sick. :)

We have nothing in common. Politics (though we are both political), religion (though we are both very religious), entertainment choices, and our faults. Oh...guns and vegan diet...so we have two things in common. LOL

It's easy to look at my first wife and the hard times she led me to and hold on to hate and anger. But it was really a blessing, and I will tell you why:

If one thing in the worst time of my life had changed or been easier, the series of events that led Shelley and I together would never have happened. And I will be perfectly honest with you all. To get to Shelley, I would do it all again a thousands times over.

There was a movie where a guy's wife was taken by a demonic town. When he went to find her demons were blocking his path with scary scenes and limbless writhing bodies, etc. When we watched it, I said, "You ****ches better have more than that if you take MY wife!" We laughed and laughed. Then she scolded me for my language. :love:

[mattman]

In 2003 I went through a period of celibacy for about 8 months. It was during my tour/govt. sponsored trip to iraq an I hated it. I could not wait to get home to my awesome wife. There is nothing even remotely natural about going that long with out.... well, going. But, I did do a lot of pull-ups and push-ups. A LOT.

[John Peterson]

Hey Friends,


I want to thank each of you that has participated on this thread. This is fantastic and respectful feedback that has been submitted and I am grateful to each of you. Once again it clearly demonstrates that there is no such thing as a "One size fits all" answer to this question. In truth the answer to this question seems to be directly related to how we are each individually wired. Celibacy is far easier for some to embrace and live with than it is for others. I personally would never be celibate by choice. I'm simply not wired that way. And the truth is, I don't want to be.

---John Peterson

[TimK]

A Hindu friend from college was into the not ejaculating thing except for procreation purposes. He was also a very strict vegitarian. Fast forward 30 years,, he had been told by the uroligist to use it (ejaculate) or lose it (prostate). Further because of all the starches he came down with a terrible case of diabetes and his wife woulnd up cooking chicken and fiish for him.
I think it is important to " clean out the pipes" on a regular basis.

Tim

[Andy62]

I don't believe in celibacy,but believe it is a chioce of the individual. There is no history of celibacy in judaism and it was not intitated into Christianity until the middle ages to prevent the descendants of priests from inheriting church property. Whatever works for you.

[Dr. success]

These are all very interesting comments. And I love Shrinking Guy's story.

In Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth, Colonel Bradford recommends celibacy as part of the path to becoming a Superman, but he says it's only for those who are ready.

I've tried it for various periods, the longest being 10 months. At that time, I had a few gray hairs and the woman who cuts my hair asked me if I was dying my hair. I said no, why? She said my gray was gone.

When I've tried it, the first week is hard, but after that it becomes much easier, and after two weeks, it's fairly easy.

I'm seeing a girl now, and not celibate at this time. And the few gray hairs are back...

[Paul Smith]

To Jon Stone: You asked if I've had any luck with Chia's advocacy of orgasm without ejaculation to retain the sexual energy? Well, at this point, I have only read the book and not yet tried to implement the practice.

[April]

While John briefly answered the question, there was a huge void reagarding the moral issues involved. I think John did say something like "a man married to a healthy women would be crazy to be celibate" inferring that he believes sex is only in marriage. However, this thread has taken twists and turns that should have been moderated. The subject changed and went into things that really should have been addressed in a more Biblical manner and/or removed from a public forum like this, in my opinion.

I debated about whether to send pm's to John and the moderators, but finally decided to make this an open letter, in the old fashioned style of Alan_OldStudent (meaning, long and controversial...Alan, btw, we miss you!) I may get totally decimated for doing this, but I guess I'll just have to deal with that.

Celibacy as a lifestyle?

In the beginning, God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. Adam and Eve were created for union, with each other and with God in a different kind of way. In the beginning, there was no hint at celibacy because God wanted to populate the earth.

Genesis 1:27-28 (King James Version)
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


1 Thessalonians 4 (KJV)
1Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

What is fornication? Sex outside of marriage. This is the guideline: no fornication. I believe homosexuality and masterbation are included in fornication/sexual uncleanness.

In the following verse, we see that Paul is saying that if someone cannot "contain" him/herself sexually, he/she should marry. Therefore, the two Biblical options, from what I can see, are celibacy or marraige. Period.

1 Corinthians 7:8-10 (King James Version)
8I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.
9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
10And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:

The following verse shows that Paul considers celibacy the preferred state for those who wish to devote themselves to God. It seems that he considers marraige an inferior option.

1 Corinthians 7:35-37 (King James Version)
35And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.
36But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.
37Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.

I have heard different interpretations of this verse, some that say it is speaking to a suitor, others that it is speaking to the father. I don't know. But in any case, it is clear that Paul considers celibacy preferable for serving the Lord "without distraction". Perhaps by this time, the earth was sufficiently populated that a few could be set aside for the Lord without the distraction of spouse/children.

Celibacy is a moral issue with clear Biblical guidelines for believers. Anyone can see the results of sexual immorality, multiple partners, homosexuality, and strange sexual practices. The results are disease, unwanted pregnancy and consequent abortion, emotional scarring, and even death (as we saw in the case posted here of that movie star practicing autoerotic-whatever and ended up hanging himself in the process). Yet people justify sexual immorality: "it's natural" "it feels good" "I couldn't help myself" etc. Well, if people want AIDS, cervical cancer, etc., go right ahead. The problem with that is that they suffer, their loved ones suffer, and everyone around them (society) is impacted by the financial and other consequences of their actions. In short, other people ultimately have to pay for their mistake.

Why should anyone marry if they can have sex outside of marriage? As one co-worker put it, "Why pay for what you can get for free?" Indeed. And so we see people of all ages living together instead of getting married (older people in order to protect their fortunes or reduce their taxes or some other financial reason; young people because everyone is doing it.) A huge percentage of children are now born out of wedlock (40% 50% or more?) And I ask you, do we really wonder why America is in decline and facing judgement from God?

Celibacy for the unmarried is not a choice, it is a Biblical command. If celibacy doesn't work for you, find a nice person of the opposite sex and get married (fast, if necessary - just go to town hall and sign the papers!).

Sex for the married is not a choice, it is also a Biblical command, unless both parties agree to abstain for a time in order to seek the Lord. (I can't find the verse for that, but it says something about "mutual agreement" or something like that).


You might say to me that this is all fine for me. Yes, it is. But it is also fine for everyone else because it is God's plan for mankind. We see the blessing upon those who follow God's way. We see the turmoil of those who act otherwise. God gives us the strength to do His will. It is not impossible. You might say I don't understand how men are wired. You are right. But it doesn't matter. God created men and knows how they are wired. He is the one who gave these commands, not me, so if you have a problem with them, take it up with Him.

Sorry if I seem like "mom" giving a lecture, but it hurts me to see people messing up their lives and other people's lives by doing things that clearly don't bring the blessing of God.

If you got this far, I will share a secret with you. Unless things have changed radically, women don't like having sex outside of marriage. They know they are the ones who will pay the heavier price for the consequences. But they do it because they feel pressured by the man and they don't want to lose him. They live together for the same reasons. They don't like it, but they feel there is no choice in this day and age. If they want to even have a hope of getting married someday, they have to jump through these preliminary hoops of compromise first, and then they are not even guaranteed that the man will want to get married in the end. Even back in my day, it was awful. Because of my conservative values (even before I became a believer), I had very little hope of getting married because I was not willing to jump through those hoops. It was very depressing. At age 30, long after all my friends had gotten married, I found someone with similar values. I am not saying my marriage and family is perfect, because they aren't, but just to get married at all was a virtual impossibility if I wanted to follow God. The churches seem to have way more women than men, (except in some places in Africa where there are far more men than women), which makes it even harder for believing women to get married.

Guys, do yourself and your girlfriend a favor: get married. And be blessed.

And according to the Apostle Paul, it you choose to be celibate and unmarried, you will be even more blessed.

[John Peterson]

Hello April,

You make several wonderful points. As a minister of the Gospel I agree with you. In fact, I don't see how one could possibly argue the Biblical basis of what you have stated, unless of course he/she is an atheist and wants to argue the point simply because it is found in the Bible. Bottom line: Sexual expression between husband and wife is in fact what is Biblically endorsed by God. But I also want to thank you April because I particularly like the way that you articulated your viewpoint. Thank you for giving us both the feminine and Biblical perspective as regards this issue.

---John Peterson

[PatCNJ]

Did anybody here discuss prostate health?

[John Peterson]

Hello PatCNJ,

No, they have not. BUT since you mention it and are a practicing Doctor of Naturopthy I hope that you will address this issue.

---John Peterson

[PatCNJ]

Sex on a regular basis is shown to shrink enlarged and cancerous prostates. It also serves a a preventative for prostate problems. Normal release suring sex can relieve pressure on the prostate. Also, it expells materials that can putrify in the male reproductive system, possibly causing infections.


I apologize if I was too graphic. I also do not want, in any way shape or form want to contradict scripture.

Hope this helps.

Pat

[John Peterson]

Hello PatCJN,

You were not too graphic. Nor did you contradict scripture. You were just being honest about the issue from a purely biological viewpoint. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, you're a "Class Act" and I am glad that you are with us.

Thank you for your insights regarding this issue.

---John Peterson