Adding weight to pushups

[divebomber]

I came across this article:

http://www.staleytraining.com/articles/nick-nilsson/power-rack-weighted-push-ups.htm

I just tried this method with Atlas II pushups on boxes, and it does have distinct advantages over weight vests:
- the load can be placed higher and doesn't drag down the lower back as much
- more load can be added
- more economical - any weight vest over 40 lbs will cost a fortune

In my routine, I will alternate between this pushup variation and Liederman pushups with DVR tension added.

Still, as this is not a weight training forum, I should end with the disclaimer that adding external load to bodyweight movements may result in the same problems as caused by weight training. Therefore, if you decide to try this, focus on impeccable form and limit the amount of weight you are adding.

[Alan_OldStudent]

Hi Divebomber,

I'm still working on regular push-ups and had planned to start using DVR resistance to my push-ups in a while to increase the resistance.

In your opinion, do you think this offers advantages over using light weights? My instinct says that DVR resistance would be better for me personally.

Regards,

Alan

[gs300tx]

I got this from their website, "You see, if you can do more than 15 reps of push-ups, it's an exercise that won't build a whole lot of muscle". How true is this?

[douglis]

I got this from their website, "You see, if you can do more than 15 reps of push-ups, it's an exercise that won't build a whole lot of muscle". How true is this?

It is very true.Adding DVR resistance to your pushups is the best thing you can do for your whole upper body.
If you find it hard at the beginning you can try Shen's version by placing your hands on a table and gradually getting lower.

[divebomber]

gs300tx, while there definitely is a point of diminishing returns concerning muscle building when the reps get above 20-30, I disagree with that quote as a blanket statement.

It really depends on so many factors as movement speed, individual fiber setup etc. that it is impossible to determine exactly at which rep the stimulus for muscle building diminishes/stops.

Also, it can be useful to alternate between high rep and low rep workouts a. k. a. "muscle confusion".

Alan, there is really no point in waiting to play around with DVR tension added to pushups. Even if you are not able to do the standard version, you can either do countertop or knee pushups as recommended by douglis.

I'd say a good predictor of your success with DVR pushups are your previous experiences with pure DVR: if you liked it and got results, it is very likely that DVR pushups will be for you, too. You may need some workouts to get the hang of it, but injury is very unlikely, so just go ahead and try them.

[Nathan]

I personally disagree with using low reps to build muscle. I have done high volume push-ups and pull-ups and have added a good amount of muscle mass from them (and still am). But if you want to do low reps I would suggest using a good amount of DVR tension. This will bring you reps way down. All the best.

---Nathan

[gruntbrain]

Thanks for the idea - yet another way to effectively perform pushups & push yourself out of a comfortable rut with an objective way of testing yourself

[Alan_OldStudent]

......Alan, there is really no point in waiting to play around with DVR tension added to pushups. Even if you are not able to do the standard version, you can either do countertop or knee pushups as recommended by douglis.

I'd say a good predictor of your success with DVR pushups are your previous experiences with pure DVR: if you liked it and got results, it is very likely that DVR pushups will be for you, too. You may need some workouts to get the hang of it, but injury is very unlikely, so just go ahead and try them.

Hi Divebomber,

I have a very sedentary at-my-computer-all-day type of job. About every 20 to 30 minutes, I have been getting up and doing one set of 20 pushups and then one of the M7s with 60%-70% tension. It takes me about a minute to do. I do the 20 pushups because I can do those slowly in good form, and the last one is getting a bit hard to do but nowhere near failure.

In the last week, I have been home with a cold doing no pushups at all, but my last week at work, I would put a bit of DVR resistance into that last pushup in some of my sets. My plan was to continue this regimen until I was doing perhaps the last 3 or 4 reps of each set with moderate DVR resistance, and then increasing the sets to 25 pushups.

I get out about 100 to 160 pushups in the course of the day that way and keep myself alert. I am not far from being 70 years old and am not on a big heavy-duty body-building jag.

I love DVRs and VRTs and have invented exercises I love and that make me feel energized, which I perform at home.

Anyhow, that's the background for my question to you.

Best holiday wishes,

Alan

[rob w]

Is it just me or is the gentleman in that article demonstrating the exercise using bad form and asking for injury???
I have to disagree with high reps not building muscle, look at herschel walker, woody strode, etc... the same would go for convicts who do not have access to weights.
Just my 2 cents

[douglis]

My experience with high rep pushups was a big disappointment.
But pushups with max DVR tension is the best thing i've ever tried.In fact gave me better results than many years of heavy bench pressing.

[divebomber]

I think this thread is great for showing up the diversity of approaches that can yield results - if it works for you, it can't be wrong.

All of the mentioned methods will lead to some muscle gain. Other priorities have to be considered as well: risk of injury, psychological preferences, training modalities (fully equipped gym or just about anywhere?).

After all, the whole package has to be considered, and not just whether some expert (or guru?) decrees that a particular method is best for muscle gain.

Alan, if you can do 20 consecutive pushups in good form, you are in great shape for any age. From my weightlifting days I still feel drawn to low reps and so I would recommend doing a workout every couple of days where you "max out" on DVR tension added from the very first rep (that should get your pushup count down below ten, maybe even below five (I manage only three when I really flex hard).

However, I see that this advice is founded on my individual psychological preferences rather than any objective evidence.

Also, from my recent experience I believe that rep/load schemes are vastly overrated when it comes to muscle building. Nutrition is the key factor - without a hypercaloric diet, it will be hard for anyone past the first year of serious training to make appreciable gains.

[tom]

I think this thread is great for showing up the diversity of approaches that can yield results - if it works for you, it can't be wrong.

Eggzackly. There is a general rule that the lowest reps will develop strength and the higher reps will develop size, but there is a huge crossover.

I have done high volume push-ups and pull-ups and have added a good amount of muscle mass from them (and still am).

There is also a diversity of age that can yield different results. Nathan, I suspect that high volume push-ups and pull-ups have also added height also since you started.:act-up:It's called HGH that you have in your blood. If any of us older guys had that much, we'd be banned from professional sports. I know what it's like being 16 - I've been it three times over, and each time gets harder. You will someday know what it's like being 52. At this point, anything you do will make you stronger, bigger, and taller.

That being said, Nathan, I think you are on a perfect life-long path. You have the hard-work ethic, all the instruction you'll ever need to be just like John (from the man himself), the instruction emphasizes health and safety, and most importantly, you are a heck of a nice, positive kid.

Tom

[Nathan]

Hey Tom,

Good point. But as for growing I have only grown a half an inch since January. So I don't think this has added too much weight. :wink: Anyway thanks for the kind words and All the best.

---Nathan

[Alan_OldStudent]

I think this thread is great for showing up the diversity of approaches that can yield results - if it works for you, it can't be wrong.....

How so very true. It is good to look at different approaches, which is why I value your opinions and the opinions of my other brothers and sisters here.


After all, the whole package has to be considered, and not just whether some expert (or guru?) decrees that a particular method is best for muscle gain.

Well said, Divebomber. We best honor our teachers (in my case, JP, VRT_Man, and my forum brothers and sisters) by a critical and respectful analysis of their methods, adopting what benefits us and leaving what does not seem applicable.

The key to success lies in an unhurried, thoughtful, analytical, and common-sense approach, avoiding dogmatism.

Alan, if you can do 20 consecutive pushups in good form, you are in great shape for any age.

Thanks Divebomber. I consider myself to definitely be in the amateur class. When I was in my 30s and 40s, I was in excellent shape, but I was never a muscle man.

However, I do now find my muscles are growing in the 6 months I've been doing Transformetrics, and actually, I am a bit surprised at my progress. When I started, I could do about 3 very sloppy pushups.

I'm just trying to be the very best Alan I can be.

Regards,

Alan

[John Peterson]

Hey Guys,

Woody Strode, Jock Mahoney, Yul Brynner, Rocky Marciano, Herschel Walker, Ricky Henderson, Charles Atlas, Greg Newton, Jim Forystek, many, many others including many of you and yours truly, John Peterson, have all performed our Push-ups weight free with fantastic results(especially when using the Power T's.) Personally, I don't think weighted Push-Ups are at all necessary and I don't think that one gets nearly as good of a pump from them as one would achieve with just standard Atlas Push-Ups. Just my viewpoint.


---John Peterson

[Aaron Hoot]

I personally perform them weight free and have had great results. Three of my boys, Jake, Caleb and Ben who also are weight free have had even better results. This is not a brag but Jake went into a college (granted it is not a big college) and I really don't want to mention which one because I don't know if it would cause him problems or not and the coach could not believe how strong he looked. He said it looked like to him that Jake would be a walk on. In our home town in the states there is a two young men one named Rodney Auldrige who holds some records in weight lifting and another man who I don't know his name say that they can't believe that Jake's size didn't come from lifting weights. I don't think that the weights are necessary because I have seen what the results are without them.

Aaron

[Alan_OldStudent]

Hi Aaron,

You wrote:

I personally perform them weight free and have had great results. Three of my boys, Jake, Caleb and Ben who also are weight free have had even better results. This is not a brag but Jake went into a college (granted it is not a big college) and I really don't want to mention which one because I don't know if it would cause him problems or not and the coach could not believe how strong he looked. He said it looked like to him that Jake would be a walk on. In our home town in the states there is a two young men one named Rodney Auldrige who holds some records in weight lifting and another man who I don't know his name say that they can't believe that Jake's size didn't come from lifting weights. I don't think that the weights are necessary because I have seen what the results are without them.

Aaron

That's a great testament to what JP calls "our methods." It is also the right way for me, judging by the results I see.

http://www.alanstancliff.com/images/divide4.gif

Hi John,

You wrote:


Hey Guys,
Woody Strode, Jock Mahoney, Yul Brynner, Rocky Marciano, Herschel Walker, Ricky Henderson, Charles Atlas, Greg Newton, Jim Forystek, many, many others including many of you and yours truly, John Peterson, have all performed our Push-ups weight free with fantastic results(especially when using the Power T's.) Personally, I don't think weighted Push-Ups are at all necessary and I don't think that one gets nearly as good of a pump from them as one would achieve with just standard Atlas Push-Ups. Just my viewpoint.
---John Peterson

That's my viewpoint too.

Your post provides me with a convenient foil for these points, which I have made before elsewhere.


I never hear you refer to "my methods" and seldom hear you say "Transformetrics." Instead, I hear you say "our methods." Although Transformetrics shows a great deal of originality in presentation and cleverness in clear organization, you always give credit to those many predecessors in the 150-plus years of physical culture you have learned from.
You also say things like "Personally, I don't think weighted Push-Ups are at all necessary and I don't think that one gets nearly as good of a pump from them as one would achieve with just standard Atlas Push-Ups" and "Just my viewpoint." In other words, you appeal to common sense, your and other's experience, and rationality, not some unquestioning dictum. You invite us practitioners to be our "own best trainer." Boy do I appreciate that!


I just mention those little items as others elsewhere on the web seem to have failed to notice them.
http://www.alanstancliff.com/images/icons/redbutterfly22.gif
Merry Christmas

Regards,

Alan

[Greg Newton]

got this from their website, "You see, if you can do more than 15 reps of push-ups, it's an exercise that won't build a whole lot of muscle". How true is this?

Not very. In my weight training incarnation I'd spouted the same ignorance, and when I say ignorance, I am talking about someone who just doesn't know any better. Yes, high volume pushups will build muscular hypertrophy. So will high tension VRT/DVR pushups. Which works better? it depends on individual genetics and preference.

Sooo, why not try both approaches? For example: this morning I did 112 consecutive Tiger Stretch Pushups in a march to do 150 by New Year's Day. At lunch I did an easy 4X25 in standard Atlas pushups. Tonight I will do 10X10 in feet elevated Tee pushups. You see, it doesn't have to be either or. It is not time consuming either. I plan on keeping this up into the new year after I go back to work.

I posted a picture from this summer when I was doing up to 400 pushups a day. While I wasn't looking for muscular size - I am more interested in aesthetics at this time in life - I can't say that the pushup volume hurt me in that department either.

[Alan_OldStudent]

Greg,

You look great! You look handsome and muscular without looking freaky. You've good cause to be proud of yourself.

Best holiday wishes and merry Christmas.

Regards,

Alan

[gruntbrain]

I'm usually a high rep kinda guy but I'm mindful of critics who warn about form breaks while repping out. Hence, I perform very high intensity, very low reps at times; clearly focusing on few reps is much easier than continual focus during a high rep set