OK Guys Tell Me What Is Really Going On With Madoff

[John Peterson]

Hey Friends,

On the Drudge report there was an article about Bernard Madoff violating the terms of his bail by sending more than a Million bucks worth of jewelry off to friends and relatives via the mail.

Question: how does a guy that stole more money than any robber in history manage to get house arrest? Does he have the goods on a large number of high profile people or what's the deal? I mean c'mon there have been a huge number of people that have done much, much less that were not even considered for bail? Not only that but whose money was he using for bail. There must be some reason this guy is out walking around on bail. Anybody have any idea? I can't believe that he hasn't been shot by someone.

---John Peterson

[Andy62]

It is like everything in society - when things get to a certain level the game changes. If I remember correctly I heard some where that the projected legal fees for the Madoff case will be about $28 million. At that level you can get the best attorneys in the world. It will be a very complicated case with all of the separate accounts and entities and each one of those situations provides an opportunity for Madoff's attorneys to delay or frustrate the prosecutor if not block discovery totally. Our legal system defends the innocent and smart lawyers know how to play the system. At the top it is different. As financial analyst Martin Mayer says, "All markets become insider markets."

[MikeNY]

John might be well that Madoff has stuff on the politicos. Madoff was a Big Player in Democratic Politics, helped to start Nasdaq, headed up the Stock Broker's Association and was large in New York Politics. I suspect the ADA's are trying to get him to cooperate and playing good ADA and bad ADA with him. They want to track the money down. As Gordon pointed out his Lawyers will be calling the shots for him. The best and highest paid Lawyers that we the People can pay for, since all his money and wealth will be gone in the end. All he deserved are the Public Defender's but the problem there, is they are excellent Criminal Defense Attorney's that are constantly in Court and know the rules nearly as well as the ones defending him now.

[Andy62]

I think a big part of it is the "revolving door". It is the same with SEC regulation and many of the other government agencies. Individuals move from the regulator to the higher paid private industry positions. Don't overlook the fact that these people are graduates of the same schools, members of the same country clubs and attend the same cocktail parties together. They are connected at the hip. Nobody has to conspire to do anything as they all know where the others are coming from and how to "play the game." Don't be too critical because this is how the whole world works including international politics-the herd instinct.

"All markets become insider markets." Martin Mayer

[Andy62]

Reporters say that while in court Madoff looked heavily medicated.

[Andy62]

The latest twist concerning the Madoff scandel is that a number of union pension funds have been affected. The concern now is that those union pension funds may be subject to the "claw back" provisions where past recipients of distributions may have to pay back those distributions because they were obtained from a fraudulent enterprise. The question is will the interpretation of this provision extend to the individual union pensioners?

[MikeNY]

Gordon I suspect that the Union pension Funds will take the hit and members see reduced account balances.

CNBC announed that Madoff has $173,000,000 in check made out to friends and family that he intended to send until the cops caught him, so he was moving $173 Million in assets when they stopped him. Plus he sent out three boxes out for the Holidays and one contained $1,000,000 in rare watches and jewelry for the family, but there were two other gift boxes sent (no valued stated yet) that must be worth a large figure too,

[Andy62]

Mike, This guy is shaping up as the con man's con man. He is going to play the game to the last card in his hand. The leverage that he is holding over the auhorities is that he is the only one who knows where the money is and how his system works [ play the maze and if you can't convince them confuse them]. In my career I saw this strategy many times [ particularly in large construction loans],but on a much, much, smaller scale. This will be interesting to watch. He still sees himself in control and to a degree he is. It is kind of a variation of the old" If I owe the bank a $1million and I can't play it I have a problem,but if I owe the bank $100 million the bank has a problem."

[Andy62]

"There's law and there's leverage"

[John Peterson]

Hey Friends,


I can't help but wonder how many people that have visited Madoff in this last month have walked out with millions of dollars in assets. How much gold does this guy have hidden away. The possibilities are endless for what a mind like his could dream up to hide assets. The only way to stop a further depletion of assets would be to incarcerate him with absolutely no phone privileges and no visitation and maybe even 'water board' this clown. Too bad they can't force him to talk. Oh well, where's Lee Van Cleef when you need him?

---John Peterson

[gruntbrain]

Send Madoff to Gitmo & use Waterboarding to get him to release his hidden(?) assets

[Andy62]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/28561457

[Andy62]

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/

[John Peterson]

Hey Gordon,


Thanks. I think that this scandal is going to be far wider in scope than anyone can imagine. And yet, this guy is not behind bars. Something is up. I don't know what it is, but he must have 'been in bed' with the regulators to get by with this stuff for this long. Am I thinking too simplistically? Did he plea bargain with the agreement to name names? What other reason could there be? I'd really like to know.


---John Peterson

[Andy62]

John, There will a new attempt to put him behind bars next week. According the CNN's consulting attorney he is not [1] considered as flight risk or [2] a threat to others which are the criteria to put him behind bars although the public out cry is so great they may put him there anyway - we will know next week.

If you didn't see that special tonight try to catch it tomorrow because more and more is constantly being learned.

[Andy62]

A sociopath knows no limits- he scammed his sister, He has the mindset of a terrorist.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479154,00.html

[MikeNY]

I'd think that he was moving 173 Million Dollars would be enough to revoke his Bail and incarcerate him. Gordon he saw his sister as just another sucker. Some of the Madoff Investors lost millions but have been taking out money for years. They too are talking to Lawyers and will face that six year claw back.

http://www.thedeal.com/newsweekly/community/legal-battle-looms-for-madoff.php

[Andy62]

Mike, That is the sociopath- no conscience. This thing is getting bigger and bigger. Critical Medical research that was showing promise has been shut down because of him. Being a history buff I remember reading about John Wesley Hardin, the old west desperado, who was sleeping in a bunk house and was awakened by the guy next to him snoring. Hardin whipped out his gun and shot and killed the guy to stop his snoring and then rolled over and went back to sleep.

If they invoke the clawback it is going to be brutal.

[John Peterson]

Hey Guys,

I think we will see many more suicides and heart attacks caused by this man than anyone can begin to imagine. I believe that he is consummately evil. He seems to be enjoying the notoriety and will probably have an authorized book about it. I'm sure that this whole fiasco will be made into a movie.


Whenever I think of this guy I'm reminded of Jesus saying, "For what shall it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul?" It's hard to say just how many people this man has hurt.

---John Peterson

[gruntbrain]

The "law of attraction" has been mentioned in this forum. Does this & other Secret principles apply do the Madoff investors? More generally, how much control do we really have given the existence of evil beings like Madoff? Do we ALWAYS reap what we sow?

[Andy62]

There is evil in the world and there is also randomness and many of us are touched by evil due to events that we are not responsible for. At the same time many who invested with Madoff, either principals or intermedaries,were motivated by greed and the consistent higher returns or they would have diversified. It is really going to be tough on the families who have been wealthy for generations,but the first rule of investing is not to put all of your eggs in one basket. I really buy the principles of "the secret",but in a specialized activity like investing you also have to learn the rules of the game and stay within the limits of your risk tolerance.