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View Full Version : What's the point of most martial arts training?


Greg Newton
11-04-2011, 11:12 PM
The other day I tried to do a sitting spin kick just to see if I could still do it. You know, the kicking technique where you pivot your feet, go down to one knee and spin a low heel kick. Now, there were a lot of years where I couldn't do that technique because of being busted up from the weights and an ATV accident. However, I had the satisfaction of being able to spin this 51 year old body and do a strong and fast kick without pain and with relaxed flexible movement.

What is the point though? How often are you going to be in a position where your are wearing clothing loose enough and you will be on a surface flat enough to execute that technique? It looks good, and when I was in my twenties it was fun to master, but is that really an effective self-defense technique?

Certainly it could leave you vulnerable and would be hard to do in the best of situations. It also wouldn't be something you could learn quickly and retain with minimal practice. I know many of the other spinning and high flying Hapkido style kicks I learned in years gone by cause pain and spinal impingement at this stage in my life. Partly it is my fault from my weight training endeavors, but there are inherent risks in training like that. Both Bill Wallace and Chuck Norris have to have hip replacements.

I don't want to knock martial ARTS, and I emphasize ARTS. It can be a fun recreational activity or even a passion. You just have to realize that many martial arts techniques aren't effective because they aren't flexible in your ability to do them and they require a high degree of training to maintain proficiency.

So what are the criteria for self defense training? Check out this list. Compare it to what you are spending time practicing these days. If you are training specifically for self-defense and what you are doing doesn't line up with these specifics then you might need to rethink what you are doing.

1. A self-defense technique must be easily learned.
2. A technique must be easily retained.
3. A self defense technique must be effective.
4. A self defense technique must be flexible in the different responses it could be used for.

Examine 3 and 4 in particular. Can you do a spinning kick in a telephone booth? Are you going to do an aikido throw off a chair? A lying throat and arm bar looks great for MMA competition, but if you're are fighting two or more people is that the technique to use? That finger and elbow wrist lock and throw you learned in Jujitsu class worked well with someone flexible and your own size or taller, but what about the 5-5 powerlifting ape with the stiff and thick muscles who grabs your coat lapel? How about good ole fashioned boxing? Any of you ever broken your hand by hitting someone in the head with a fist? It happens. Even to those who are well trained.

How flexible are the things you've learned and how applicable are they to different situations? As Larry has often said, martial arts are great. I did them myself for many years. But for truly effective self defense your response must be less than spectacular. It must be short, sweet, and to the point and then get out of there. Think about it.

Greg Newton
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sairasd
11-05-2011, 05:54 AM
Greg, I like your post here. I have to agree with you about the intention of martial arts training. A lot of people take these classes and receive a lot of benefit from them in increased fitness, flexibility, and the ability to get outside themselves and do something they normally may not do. In this respect, martial arts are great. Many arts these days cater to sport rather than self defense and combat, with the MMA styles being very popular. I studied Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for a short time myself, along with karate and tae kwon do when I was younger. While I was pretty bad at grappling, I did learn a lot from it in terms of how I would handle this in real life-cheating and a steel pen could do wonders in a grappling situation!

I can also remember-a long time ago-buying special "martial arts" jeans that allowed for high kicks, just in case you needed to defend yourself...I'm glad it never came to that! Since then, and since working in corrections now for a while, I have come to appreciate the Split Second Survival techniques and point of view. Developing a healthy sense of awareness is top priority, the rest is details. As someone once stated, the mind is your primary weapon.

Dave

tom
11-05-2011, 05:29 PM
Martial arts is martial arts.
Self defense is self defense.

Tom

MikeNY
11-05-2011, 10:02 PM
Greg very thoughtful, insightful and logical analysis of Martial Arts and Fighting Arts. Fast, simple and effective beats all the Kung fu Mumbo dances. One reason that MMA adopted Boxing is that it works, read once Boxing is 5% Total of MMA techniques and accounts for most wins and knockouts. Bruce Lee was a fan of Boxing and Western Fencing and said "do what works".

tom
11-06-2011, 12:10 AM
And congrats on being able to do the sitting spin kick. It's a good measure of progress.

Tom

Andy62
11-06-2011, 05:17 PM
To me the highest point in the martial arts is to be able to accurately size up your adversary, pin point his psychological vulnerabilities, and correctly exploit them in any setting or environment. If you can do that effectively you won't have to lift a finger and your opponent probably won't be able to figure out what you did too him.

sully2rgj
11-15-2011, 04:46 PM
martial arts are not just about kicking punching and grappling...
it's also about a code of living and becoming a better person. the punching kicking and grappling are merely a way of achieving this.

Greg Newton
11-16-2011, 03:39 AM
martial arts are not just about kicking punching and grappling...
it's also about a code of living and becoming a better person. the punching kicking and grappling are merely a way of achieving this.


Sully,

That is an interesting concept that pauses to give me thought. You learn self-discipline from martial arts training. With the right teacher, you learn humility. However, I am sure that those of us who trained in martial arts for many years have mixed feeling on that. It can be about character, and martial arts can have high ideals, but is this really what it is all about and is this what most people practice martial arts for? It is equivalent to playing football to build character. it could, with the right coach. You learn sportsmanship, self-discipline, and the ability to push yourself past boundries, but is this what people play football for?

Greg

gbjj
11-17-2011, 05:37 PM
So what are the criteria for self defense training? Check out this list. Compare it to what you are spending time practicing these days. If you are training specifically for self-defense and what you are doing doesn't line up with these specifics then you might need to rethink what you are doing.

1. A self-defense technique must be easily learned.
2. A technique must be easily retained.
3. A self defense technique must be effective.
4. A self defense technique must be flexible in the different responses it could be used for.

How flexible are the things you've learned and how applicable are they to different situations? As Larry has often said, martial arts are great. I did them myself for many years. But for truly effective self defense your response must be less than spectacular. It must be short, sweet, and to the point and then get out of there. Think about it.

.

I'll Plus one on that.. very good points, I see so many people teaching things that just make me wonder....