Training for 12 Minutes Each Week, Is It For Real?

[John Peterson]

Hey Friends,

I received a private e-mail from someone new. He asked me if I am aware of John Little's newest book that promise's it's buyers, "the body you want in 12 minutes each week"

First off, until I received his e-mail I was not ware of "Body By Science" written by Mr. Little. And secondly, I have never known a person to achieve the kind of positive results following the methods outlined in Mr. Little's other books that they were hoping for. Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that they did not achieve results, just that they did not achieve the results that Mr. Little implied that they would achieve.

So with that in mind, let me just state that I have not read Mr. Little's new book. But even if I had, and found it totally misleading and unrealistic I would not write a strong denouncement. Why? Because if it motivates people to do something, anything to better themselves, then it has a achieved a worthy purpose. And from my perspective, though woefully inadequate, 12 minutes of exercise each week is far better than no exercise.

But let's also be realistic from a common sense perspective, I don't see how it would even remotely be possible to achieve extraordinary all around results from twelve minutes each week regardless of what method of exercise one followed. And even if it were 12 minutes of pure Isometric Contraction each week you'd only be working the strength and aesthetic components of Transformetric Fitness. There is no way you will achieve a balance of 1) Strength, 2) Endurance(cardio and muscular) 3) Flexibility, 4) Balance, 5) Coordination 6) Speed(reaction time) and 7) Aesthetics.

Once again friends, I am NOT saying anything disparaging about a competitor of mine. And I have not read his book. But let me also say that there is often a big difference between what is 'theoretically possible' and what is realistically achievable.

---John Peterson

[ShrinkingGuy]

I would call "Snake Oil" but the snake oil really had omega-3's and probably really DID help with achy joints.

You see a lot of this. People trading the cow for a fist full of magic beans. Unfortunately magic beans are profitable, and they have an extremely low overhead.

I would have trouble just keeping myself to 12 minutes of warmups and stretching per week...per day actually..

Still it's a place to start for the person currently doing zero minutes of workout per week.

[Doc Al]

I haven't seen the actual book, but looked it up on amazon. The primary author is Doug McGuff, who has written numerous articles about High Intensity Training (with weights, of course) over the years. So I expect it's more of the same. While HITers have long claimed that short, brutal weight lifting workouts (taken to failure) are all you need for total fitness, I suspect that McGuff takes this to the limit by selecting a small number of total body exercises that you do once a week. If you add up the actual time that you are lifting weights, it probably does add up to about 12 minutes. Good luck with that!

[tom]

Body beautiful and fitness businesses have used hype through the ages. I commend John on putting out straightforward products - I don't think he used "blowtorch fat" or "slabs of muscle" once.

However, just out of curiosity, let's think about what we could do with 12 minutes a week. This is what I would recommend: get your eating/calories under control, either by following John's lists, or nosdiet, or intermittent fasting, or Flash's gawdawful sounding protein shake, or whatever works for you, or a mix. Then, three times a week, do a Tabata workout. That's twelve minutes total. You would at least end up looking like the new James Bond guy.

If I were voted king and could make everybody in the country do that, we would pretty much eliminate diabetes and heart disease, put all the gyms out of business, along with many pharmaceutical companies, diet industries, and plastic surgeons.

For those who want the kind of body that program will give them, that is just the right program to give them that kind of body.

Circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works.

Now I gotta go to the bookstore and stand and check out what it's about.

Tom

[EyeDoc]

I haven't seen the actual book, but looked it up on amazon. The primary author is Doug McGuff, who has written numerous articles about High Intensity Training (with weights, of course) over the years. So I expect it's more of the same. While HITers have long claimed that short, brutal weight lifting workouts (taken to failure) are all you need for total fitness, I suspect that McGuff takes this to the limit by selecting a small number of total body exercises that you do once a week. If you add up the actual time that you are lifting weights, it probably does add up to about 12 minutes. Good luck with that!

Yeah, McGuff is one of those Superslow weight training guys, as well as a Mike Mentzer devotee. He states that he himself does one set of Superslow chest presses, pulldowns and leg presses like every 10-14 days or something like that and anything more does not give him better results. Nobody I've ever talked to who tried a routine like that ever accomplished anything but I never got around to trying it myself.

[divebomber]

Due to the British pound being at an all-time low in relation to the Euro, I was able to purchase "Body by Science" at an extremely good price from a British online bookstore. It hasn't arrived yet.

I am doubtful whether this book will enrich my current training practice in any meaningful way, but I expect a formidable challenge of my critical thinking, which will suffice for a worthwhile read. What intrigued me is the book's premise to validate HIT theory by looking at nothing but empirical science. From what I know about Little's previous works, it is very unlikely that he will pull it off convincingly, but you never know...

In any case, I will post a detailed review in a couple of weeks (unless John tells me otherwise).

[DT man]

I must disagree with you John, it is for real.......It doesn't work, but it is for real!!!!! People will buy anything properly marketed.

[TimK]

I just scraped off a very thin layer of snow form my driveway and even that took longer than 12 minutes.
But I tend to think that if I spend 12 minutes a week pushing myself away from the kitchen table (or the feeding trough) that I might look substantially better. That might mean that I would be in better shape or in better health but I doubt it.
Even Matt Furey's 5 minute abs done daily totals 35 minutes and he still pushes one to do some Hindu pushups, squats and alittle bridging.
Maybe if one did 12 minutes day of Cals, watched ones diet and walked for 30 minutes you might be in great shape for a modern American teenager. But 12 minutes a week seems meaningless.


Tim

[gruntbrain]

As usual where there's hopr, there's hype.

Even though the Sisco/Liittle Static Contraction protocol is also overhyped, it does seem to work as a "supplement" & provides some feedback to my self resistance efforts

[John Peterson]

Hey Friends,

I was not aware that another man had actually written the book. Even so, I'd be highly skeptical of anyone achieving the body they want as a result of one super intense 12 minute workout each week regardless of what method one used.

And Tom my friend, I have never used the absurd adjectives that you mention that are so commonly used by some of my competitors in advertising their products (unless of course, I was joking around on the forum).

Divebomber, I look forward to your review.


---John Peterson

[Alan_OldStudent]

Hi brothers and sisters,

I haven't read the book. But here's my long-winded reaction anyhow:

S N O R T ! ! ! !
A W , H O R S E F E A T H E R S ! ! ! !

I'll talk at you later.

Regards,

Alan

[Andy62]

In many respects some elements of the marketing techniques in the bodybuilding industry replicate those of the cosmetics industry. On his death bed, after being asked by his relatives the secret of his fortune, Charles Revson the founder of Revlon Cosmetics said ,"I did not promise any of those women that my cosmetics would make them beautiful,but I gave them hope." As W.Clement Stone said,"Hope is the great motivator."

[Max McKinley]

Yeah, McGuff is one of those Superslow weight training guys, as well as a Mike Mentzer devotee. He states that he himself does one set of Superslow chest presses, pulldowns and leg presses like every 10-14 days or something like that and anything more does not give him better results. Nobody I've ever talked to who tried a routine like that ever accomplished anything but I never got around to trying it myself.

As I was reading John's original post, the first thought I had was that this sounds like a Mike Mentzer variation.

[hollyweed88]

Is it possible to get half the results by cutting the workout time to 6 minutes?
Or can I do 2 minutes a day for 6 days and take off the 7th day? Will I lose a lot of weight and get buff? Or will I just get buff?






lol
Just kidding. I am going to stay with my Richard Simmons dynamic toga twirls. They only take 4 minutes a day. I have done them for years. I just have not had any improvements in my physique. Who knows, they could work some day.

[EyeDoc]

Is it possible to get half the results by cutting the workout time to 6 minutes?
Or can I do 2 minutes a day for 6 days and take off the 7th day? Will I lose a lot of weight and get buff? Or will I just get buff?






lol
Just kidding. I am going to stay with my Richard Simmons dynamic toga twirls. They only take 4 minutes a day. I have done them for years. I just have not had any improvements in my physique. Who knows, they could work some day.

Well, now that you mention it, Mentzer did have a routine called the Super Consolidation routine which was meant for very advanced trainees, or people who supposedly had a lot of trouble recovering from weight training. You literally would go to the gym and do a set of chest presses to failure and go home. About 5 days later you would go to the gym and do a set of pull downs to failure. About 5 days later you would go and do a set of leg presses to failure. That was the routine, and Mentzer swore his trainees got excellent results from training this way.

I don't want to make too much light of all of this because I think 2 HIT workouts a week if you use machines could be done in about 12 minutes as long as you went from machine to machine without rest, which is really the way Arthur Jones and some of the other HIT authors said you should do it. If you did 5 exercises one day, and 5 more 3 days later I think you could have a productive routine as far as strength training goes. I just make fun of people like McGuff who take it too far, and make ridiculous claims about how science backs up their way of doing things. These guys somehow came up with the idea that muscles and tendons require like 7-14 days in between intense workouts to recover and I've never seen any scientific studies that back that up.

[divebomber]

Eyedoc, I couldn't agree more.

It's really strange how "HIT Jedis" (fitting nickname) will justify the supposed superiority of their training style with longwinded theoretical (even philosophical) arguments, when the scientifically established views seem to be the exact opposite of their claims.

A cynic would say that with 12 minutes workout time a week, there's not an awful lot of HIT practice to start with, and all you're left with is theory.

However, that is the exact point why I bought the book. Although I'm a layperson I hope I will be able to judge whether the authors just cherry-pick obscure studies to lend some credibility to their outlandish claims and teachings, or whether they refer to science in a legitimate way, possibly even modifying orthodox HIT dogma.

After all, I have to admit that when doing some HIT weight training about ten years ago my strength levels really soared. I got to a point when I had to abandon my HIT routine because I wasn't able to get in position safely any more (working out with a 240 lbs set of powerblocks at home), and my frame was definitely taking a beating, so I wouldn't do HIT with weights again. But Royce's success clearly shows that HIT is in no way restricted to weight training - maybe digesting the book will lead to some productive applications for self-resistance and BW training as well (that's what I'm hoping for at least, but against better judgment).

[gruntbrain]

Little has had a good gig goin' for years. He chides detractors by tellin' 'em their failed attempts at the HIT style was the result of mediocre effort.

[EyeDoc]

Little has had a good gig goin' for years. He chides detractors by tellin' 'em their failed attempts at the HIT style was the result of mediocre effort.

Well, Arthur Jones used to point a loaded handgun at his trainees while they were training if he didn't think they were working hard enough and tell them he was going to shoot them if they didn't work harder. So maybe a training partner with a loaded 9mm is necessary to get everything out of Little's style of training.

[Bruno]

Both Little and Sisco were promoted by self help guru Tony Robbins several years ago. As far as I know he still promotes the static training of Sisco. I believe it's haevy weights in partial ranges with an isometric component.

Arthur Jones became a multi millionaire selling machines and most of his writing are on the interent for free. His wiki page has some links to free reading material. He writes about rest, muscle "science", gaining weight etc., much more than his machines only.

I'm certainly not a hit expert however his beliefs on rest makes sense to me. After a strenuous workout it makes sense to give the body time so that the muscles have the chance to rest and grow. Royce advocates rest between hit workouts as well. The rest period between sessions only has to be as long (as many days) as is necessary for the muscles to repair and grow.

After a warm up, it may make sense to go all out for one or two sets. Take push ups or pull ups as an example. I made some of the best pull up progress in my life during Marine Corp boot camp. Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday after some cals and a three mile run we did one set of pull ups to failure. So that was only three sets per week. Many, many recruits finished boot camp (12 weeks later) able to perform 20 dead hang pull ups.

[Andy62]

Maximum weight support lifting like Little and Sisco recommend is really going to screw up some people and cause injury. You could take it too the extreme in the other direction and just do mental visualization[ see below] or you can take the most effective combination and do Transformetrics which includes mental, physical, and emotional strength training that will build maximum strength and keep you healthy for a lifetime.



"Think Yourself Stronger
Competitive athletes often use a technique called visualization to help give them an edge over their opponents.

By imagining every aspect of a race or performance, from start to finish, they bring themselves one step closer to making it a reality. New research suggests this same technique may apply to strengthening muscles as well.

''Just thinking about exercise can help maintain muscle strength,'' says Dr. Vinoth Ranganathan, who, with a team of researchers from the Cleveland Clinic Foundation in Ohio, investigated the strength benefits of imagining exercising a muscle.

Thirty healthy young adults were divided into three groups. For 15 minutes a day, five days per week for 12 weeks, the first group imagined exercising their little finger muscle, the second group imagined exercising their biceps muscle and the third group served as a control by not doing any imaginary exercise.

''We asked the subjects to think as strongly as they could about moving the muscle being tested, to make the imaginary movement as real as they could,'' explains Ranganathan.

Muscle strength was measured before, during and after the training sessions.

The finger exercisers increased their strength 35 percent, while the biceps group increased 13.4 percent. Measurements of the participants' brain activity during their mental exercises suggest that these strength gains were due to improvements in the brain's ability to signal muscle.

Researchers hope these results will assist in the therapy of stroke and spinal cord injury patients, and follow-up studies are planned for healthy older adults as well.

''We believe that anyone who has difficulty doing physical exercises can use our mental training method to improve the muscle strength they have lost or maintain the muscle strength they have,'' researchers wrote.

Of course, actual strength-training exercises — as opposed to imaginary ones – are still the most effective means of building strong, healthy muscles.

Source: Annual meeting of the Society for Neuroscience, November 11, 2001, San Diego, Calif."

[John Peterson]

Hey Guys,

You're all welcome to think anything you like but anytime one is going all out with the heaviest weights possible one is setting themselves up for injury. Often times, permanent injury. This is particularly true as relates to major joint problems, shoulder problems, and low back pain if you are incorporating very heavy bench presses and squats into your program.

Charles Atlas's methods and my own are all about LIFELONG Strength and Fitness. Bear in mind that once a person has ruined their joints, they will not be able to exercise and strengthen their muscles. This is exactly why Alois P Swoboda taught his students how to strengthen their muscles maximally through using mind directed DVR/VRT muscle contraction. Our friend Royce has stated many times on this forum that in his opion DVR/VRT and Isometrics are the best and SAFEST ways to practice HIT.

Believe me friends, there is an epidemic of joint problems in America today and a big part of it is due to the wrong kinds of strength training exercise that compromise joints, tendons, and ligaments.

---John Peterson

[Bruno]

I forgot to mention, Mike Marvel advocated a method that required very little daily time commitment.

[gruntbrain]

With or without weights, REAL HIT style training is very difficult to achieve even when we think we're maximally exerting; self delusion happens

[GREGL]

Hi All,

I just finished reading McGuff's book, and I don't think it is that bad. The main premise seems to be that the fast twitch fibers need at least a week to recover, so therefore, if we are activaing the fast twitch fibers we should wait a week until we workout again. Slow twitch will recover much faster. I would guess, that if this is a correct assumption, those of us who do high volume are activating mainly slow twitch fibers and could workout much more often than the "Hit" people who are working the fast twitch. He is a "SuperSlow" advocate and assumes an orderly activation of fibers, with a positive failure occurring in under two minutes necessary to get those fast twitch fibers going. I never have believed the hype of these incredibly short infrequent workouts, but they sure have alot of advocates. Maybe they are on to somtehing.

I would like to see a picture of this guy. Has anybody seen one?

[John Peterson]

Hey Friends,

With the methods that we teach and advocate one can obtain an incredibly intense H.I.T. style workout once or twice each week and exercise at far less intensity on the other intervening days(This is what I do) . This in fact would dramatically enhance the results of H.I.T. due to the increased blood flow and nutrients being delivered to the muscles and especially connective tissues which have very little blood supply. Interestingly enough, this was something(enhanced blood flow to the muscles and supportive tissues) that Tromp Van Diggelen stated and advocated as critically essential for enhanced strength and well-being in his Physical Culture Masterpiece titled, "Worth While Journey". In it's text you will discover that Van Diggelen was a strong advocate of Isometric Pulse Contractions which he referred to as Muscle Control (a term that he took from Alois P.Swoboda's Course of DVR exercises).

Personally, for maximized health, strength, and physical fitness, particularly as it relates to muscles, joints, tendons, and ligaments, I believe Daily exercise (in the form of DVR/VRT & Isometrics) is essential. Nothing builds and the joints, tendons, ligaments, and muscles simultaneously while enhancing their blood supply and especially 'NERVE FORCE' (from which the strength for maximized muscle contraction originates) as does DVR/VRT and Isometrics. This is because with these methods one can learn to achieve maximum contraction without relying on gravity to force it.

---John Peterson

[Viking Dan]

With or without weights, REAL HIT style training is very difficult to achieve even when we think we're maximally exerting; self delusion happens

True, but most people will stop when a set becomes hard, a HIT guy will try to go til its impossible.

Anecdotally, I made some of my best gains(with weights) doing drop sets. Do a set to failure, immediately knock 30% of the weight off, do another set to failure, etc. They don't exactly map well to calisthenics though.

[John Peterson]

Hey Viking Dan,


Your post underscores the point that I keep striving to make by reminding people that everything that we are teaching and advocating here is about complete, total, and comprehensive lifelong health, strength, and fitness of Mind, Body, and Spirit. But don't misunderstand my point. Having a beautiful and athletic physique with radiant health that allows one to enjoy life to it's fullest right up to the very end is a very worthy goal and it's one that we should all aspire to achieving because it allows to do as much good in this world as we possibly can. However, the only way that can be fully achieved is by safeguarding our foundational health. When it comes to the body, if we compromise the integrity of our joints, tendons, and ligaments we will be unable to train. If we can't train we undermine our foundational health. This is why the right kind of strength training is critical to enhancing foundational health and why the wrong can be worse than none at all. That is why I am against H.I.T. with heavy weights. Doing so ultimately creates the same kinds of problems that Mike Mentzer and his brother Ray, both suffered from and that took them to an early grave because neither man could train due to the injuries they had sustained from their own training.

---John Peterson

[Bruno]

you can keep performing negatives for pull ups and push ups until exhausted.

[Viking Dan]

Hey Viking Dan,


Your post underscores the point that I keep striving to make by reminding people that everything that we are teaching and advocating here is about complete, total, and comprehensive lifelong health, strength, and fitness of Mind, Body, and Spirit. But don't misunderstand my point. Having a beautiful and athletic physique with radiant health that allows one to enjoy life to it's fullest right up to the very end is a very worthy goal and it's one that we should all aspire to achieving because it allows to do as much good in this world as we possibly can. However, the only way that can be fully achieved is by safeguarding our foundational health. When it comes to the body, if we compromise the integrity of our joints, tendons, and ligaments we will be unable to train. If we can't train we undermine our foundational health. This is why the right kind of strength training is critical to enhancing foundational health and why the wrong can be worse than none at all. That is why I am against H.I.T. with heavy weights. Doing so ultimately creates the same kinds of problems that Mike Mentzer and his brother Ray, both suffered from and that took them to an early grave because neither man could train due to the injuries they had sustained from their own training.

---John Peterson

I agree 100%, John. I'm more interested in overall health/fitness than having biceps the size of my head(they'd stlll be nice to have.) The challenge is figuring out how to make calisthenics "heavier" without using weights. Other than eating til I gain 20 lbs. ;)

I think the HIT theory has value even if you don't use weights. You just have to be more creative in upping the intensity.

[JoeJustice]

Dan,

Just a thought of the top of my head... how about changing the incline? Do push-ups with feet above your head until you hit your max, then immediately level with your head until you hit max, and then head above feet until you hit max? No rest between sets. That might mimic the weight stripping method.

-Joe

[Greg Newton]

Hi men,

McGuff has gotten discussion on this forum in the past. Can you get a workout in twelve minutes? Sure, if that is all you have time for, you could do twelve minutes of powerflexing or add three minutes and do the trinity. Something is better than nothing.

However, the best way I can sum up McGuff comes from one of his internet articles. He went to a convention of Super Slow/Mentzer devotees one time. The thing that struck him as odd was that no one was built like Mentzer. The majority of folks there were bespectacled, average looking guys like himself, who read the same books, did the same research and kissed the ground Mike Mentzer trod.

I guess I am being a little sarcastic here. The guy is a medical doctor and talks a good talk for the uninitiated, but my personal opinion is that he is out there. He used to have a training facility fairly close to where I live where his trainers, in shirt and tie, trained people in a 65 degree atmosphere.

I am not John so I can say this. Even if I was still an ironhead I would still say the guy was wankers.

[douglis]

Dan,

Just a thought of the top of my head... how about changing the incline? Do push-ups with feet above your head until you hit your max, then immediately level with your head until you hit max, and then head above feet until you hit max? No rest between sets. That might mimic the weight stripping method.

-Joe

Good one Joe.
Or you can start with DVR push ups and when you hit your max continue without the added tension.

[gruntbrain]

The HIT debate may never be resolved since performing real HIT relies on perceived effort; may of us likely avoid the required pain of HIT

[Greg Newton]

Let me clarify something. There are quite a few versions of HIT with the weights out there. People like Kim Wood, Ken Leinster, Ellington Darden, and Stuart McRobert all have different takes on what is essentially the same thing - train until you cannot train no more and rest several days between sessions. The Super Slow folks are a breed to their own and are on the fringe of the HIT community.

In a way I think they've got the right idea, but miss the point. It is not the weight, but the tension that builds and strengthens the muscles. That tension begins with mental focus. HIT with DVR/VRT makes sense for one's long term health. HIT with weights or machines is a future disaster on the joints.

[gruntbrain]

Injury risk aside, the use of equipment can force you to focus & hence help ensure a HIT style effort; balancing T handles is a good example of forced focus.

[Papa Bear]

I don't now about this new book nor the author, but the closest I could see to aomething like this might be from Dr Keveloff mentioned in IPR. IIRC he did brief ISO Flexes though out the day and not much else. I am interested in it just because of the effects he had from people with hypertension.

Check this link for more info.

http://www.yoganandaafrican-american.com/html/stor_60sec_vitality.html


Papa Bear

[Greg Newton]

Alright guys,

Here is McGuff in his own words from an article he wrote called the Geeks shall Inherit the Earth.

The Island of the Misfit Toys

In July of 1997 I was the keynote speaker at the annual convention of the SuperSlow Exercise Guild. After my first day at the convention I called my wife to tell her how exciting it was to be amongst people who shared my enthusiasm for this field. I told her..."it's wierd, we think alike, we talk alike, we read the same novels, we even dress alike". My wife responded by saying..."face it Doug you're a geek". She asked me if the attendees were all extremely muscular, envisioning a convention room full of bulky guys with the "hello my name is" tags. I responded that, in fact, most were also about my size or smaller. It was then that I realized that the convention was largely made up of people who have a passion for a field despite having little or no natural talent in that field. We were a convention of misfits. It was like the island for misfit toys in Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. As Eric Hoffer stated..."The permanent misfits are those who because of a lack of talent or some irreparable defect in body or mind cannot do the one thing for which their whole being craves. No achievement, however spectacular, in other fields can give them a sense of fulfillment." Eric Hoffer's painful description of a misfit describes me perfectly...I would love to be extremely muscular but I must joke about it by saying that I hope to achieve my full potential so I can look like the "before" photo of Casey Viator in the Colorado Experiment.

Why Are All You SuperSlow Guys Small?

This is a common response that you hear from your generic musclehead when you try to explain the superiority of the high-intensity approach. The only response to these type of people is to point out the exceptions to the misfit examples in our field. A photo of Joel Waldman (who has a bigger neck than I've ever seen on any living mammal) usually does the trick. For those with a functional intellect it is better to ask "can Pat Riley slam dunk?".

The bodybuilding/strength training field is the only field that judges the validity of an argument by the appearance of the person making the argument. This tendency is perpetuated by a field which has a vested interest in perpetuating the lie that "anyone can do it". The people who possess the natural talent (consciously or not) perpetuate the myth that others can achieve massive muscles too (provided they keep up with the latest info in the muscle magazines and take the correct supplements), because if they did not perpetuate the myth then they would have to get a real job. This problem does not exist in sports that have spectator appeal because these athletes can make their money off this aspect of the sport. The less spectator appeal a sport has the more the "anyone can do it" myth is perpetuated by those that stand to make money in the field. Of all sports the strength and bodybuilding field has the least spectator appeal; after all, who wants to watch a bloated, bald, shaven gorilla prance around in it's underwear?

What every truly advanced field recognizes is that the best innovations come from the misfits. The field of medicine has advanced to amazing degrees because of research in the pharmaceutical and genetic engineering fields. If you ever want to find a misfit walk into one of these labs. In the field of sports Howard Head was an extreme misfit who literally changed the fields of skiing and tennis forever. Gene Landrum in his Book-Profiles of Genius offers the following insight. "Howard constantly faced failure in those fields in which he most wanted to succeed. He failed at everything he cherished most. Howard desperately wanted to write and failed miserably. He passionately wanted to master the art of skiing and failed. Tennis was to become his retirement pleasure and he failed at it as well...He pursued tennis and skiing with the tenacity of a hungry animal right up to his death in 1991. He ended up eminently successful, not at the sports, but as the one who changed these sports more than anyone in history." The pioneer in our own field, Arthur Jones, can only be described as the ultimate misfit. I bring all this up to simply point out that the best innovators and passionate devotees in any field are likely to be the misfits, so don't be disappointed if someone with much less passion than you ends up with better results. So don't open a SuperSlow/HIT facility unless you can deal with the fact that some of your beginning clients will end up much bigger than you in 12-20 weeks of training.



There are some succint and true comments in there about bodybuilding. But, this is the problem I have with the articles by McGuff and Dr. McGuff in general (yes, the guy gets under my skin). There is an underlining theme in his writing of "My training doesn't work for me because of my genetics." I also want to throw up at the endless parade of scientific B.S. as to why his system works.

Believe me, it is a whole lot simpler than what he is peddling. I am sure Dr. McGuff could scientifically explain away the training promoted here. Whatever the good doctor looks like, I am also sure he could improve with John's methods. But, that wouldn't fit hs paradigm and he wouldn't be happy promoting something that actually worked for normal people.

[ben alexander]

Hi men,

McGuff has gotten discussion on this forum in the past. Can you get a workout in twelve minutes? Sure, if that is all you have time for, you could do twelve minutes of powerflexing or add three minutes and do the trinity. Something is better than nothing.

However, the best way I can sum up McGuff comes from one of his internet articles. He went to a convention of Super Slow/Mentzer devotees one time. The thing that struck him as odd was that no one was built like Mentzer. The majority of folks there were bespectacled, average looking guys like himself, who read the same books, did the same research and kissed the ground Mike Mentzer trod.

I guess I am being a little sarcastic here. The guy is a medical doctor and talks a good talk for the uninitiated, but my personal opinion is that he is out there. He used to have a training facility fairly close to where I live where his trainers, in shirt and tie, trained people in a 65 degree atmosphere.

I am not John so I can say this. Even if I was still an ironhead I would still say the guy was wankers.

There seems to be a lot of hagiography regarding Mike Mentzer, especially as he recently passed away.

Mike had a great physique, and was a pretty intelligent guy. However, just because he seemed to get results from HIT, and followed Ayn Rand's philosophy, doesn't mean he was right about either. Personally, I find Ayn Rand's work pretentious and overwritten, and her philosophy naive. She was a novelist, for goodness sake, not a scholar! It would be like starting courses in a fake language like Klingon. Hang on, they do!

It's like musicians worshipping Jimi Hendrix. I love Jimi, but I'd never consider playing his songs note for note whilst dressed in hippie finery. Heck, Jimi never played the songs the same way, and today would probably be in to jazz (he was friends with Miles Davis).

Ben

[Greg Newton]

Thank you Ben. You get the point. For bodybuilding, Mentzer did have an outstanding physique. He was a product of genetics, steroids, and his training. He was an intelligent guy and could articulate well the training he espoused, some of which could be of value to genetically typical people. There are things one could learn from Mentzer's successes and failures.

Here is where I draw the line. You see, I kind of feel like the SNL skit where William Shatner told all the Trekkies to "Get a life." It is pathetic for all these self-described geeks to dwell in the shadow of Mike Mentzer, ever talking training, pontificating with psuedo scientific jargon, and quoting Ayn Rand, but never actually training themselves.

I follow the training of Charles Atlas and John Peterson. I admire both men. I have learned from both men. But, I do not want to be Charles Atlas or John Peterson. I want to be Greg Newton and be the best Greg Newton can be. If the training they recommended did not work for me, I would not waste my time pursuing something that didn't work.

[gruntbrain]

Who would have the discipline to experiment with the 12 min. thingy? I don't so I'll be agnostic on this one

[EyeDoc]

The irony is that McGuff thinks that people who don't accept that his way of training is the ultimate are closed minded, when McGuff is as closed minded as you can get. What irritates me about these guys is not the way they train. If that's what they want to do then great, go for it. It's that they never accept the obvious fact that not all people will benefit from very low volume HIT training. Some need a little more volume, some need lower intensity levels etc. I can think of several people right off the bat who got nowhere training McGuff's way, and did very well when they switched to a different training protocol.

[tom]

I do not want to be Charles Atlas or John Peterson.

How about Greg Atlas? . . . . . . . . . . . . Atlas Peterson?

A few papers to the court and you're in.

Just trying to keep you open to all possibilities,
Tom Hercules

[JoeJustice]

Yeah, don't sell yourself short!

-Joe Justice

[Greg Newton]

Tom Hercules? It has a nice ring to it! :act-up:

Maybe though...

Greg Flynn?
Greg London?
Greg Baer?
Greg Weismuller?
Alexander the Greg?
Woody Gregg?
Babe Gregg?
Greg Dimaggio?
Strangler Gregg?
Greg the Red?
Sir Francis Greg?
Sir Greg Hawkwood?
Sherlock Greg?
Genghis Greg?
Timurlane the Greg?
Louis L'Greg?
Greg the Lionhearted?
Gregin Hood?
Gregenstein?

The possibilities are endless.........

But, if we are going to go with the ancient world, I'll have to go with Greg Centurion. It's a hundreds thing.

[Max McKinley]

The Greginator
Gregmeister
Makin' copies
All right!

Oops sorry. Got carried away. :)

[JoeJustice]

I'd go with:

Gregan The Newtarian

-Joe