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Antisocial deviants are often very social
 
 
JoeJustice JoeJustice is offline
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08-19-2009, 09:58 AM
 
John,

I really enjoyed your e-mail newsletter on the antisocial personalities. Whatís interesting about the topic is the big ones are easy to spot; serial killers, megalomaniacs, physically and emotionally abusive people. But unless you live on a desert island, there is a great deal of antisocial types that you run into everyday. It strikes me, however, that most people donít want to label people what they really are, most people want to just get along and itís through this mechanism that most antisocial personalities get their power. Antisocial personalities can, in fact, be very, very social.

The first time I really understood the nature of people like this was in one of my early jobs. (Cue the wavy flashback effect and harp music) I had to go to an event with the bossís wife and while we were planning the event people would come in and out of the office. The bossís wife was very, very sweet with everyone who came in, complemented them and told them what a good job they were doing, everyone loved her. But I began to notice as the day went on that as soon as the person was out of the room, she would turn to me and say something downright hateful about whoever was just there; most of the time it was a comment about how the person looked, who they were sleeping with or some other gossip.

I distinctly remember thinking, ďMan, sheís pretty rough on these people, Iím glad sheís always nice to me.Ē At some point it dawned on me that she was always nice to everyone, as long as they were in the room. Wonder what she had to say about me when I wasnít there?

Iíve never been a big fan of the whole office politics game. Iíd say thatís where most people run into the antisocial personality. Iíll tell you that on more than one occasion Iíve told people that I wasnít interested in hearing rumors about who is sleeping with who or who did what to their kids or whatever. And every time Iíve said I didnít want any part of the rumors, guess who became the next target of the rumors? Three guesses and the first two donít count.

Whatís really interesting is that acquaintances that might not be close friends, but still knew me well, would buy into the rumors. To add onto that, they all knew that the source of the rumors was a known liar and gossip, still theyíd give the rumor consideration.

Explain that behavior to me.

The best Iíve ever been able to figure is that people just want to get along. There is also a real fear of becoming the target of the slander, so rather than telling the antisocial deviant to shove off, they try to appease them. Unfortunately, often times, as youíve described in your e-mail, good people get tangled up with these antisocial types and often get dragged down with them when the smartest course of action would have been to just ignore them from the beginning.

If you have to interact with an antisocial, say itís a coworker, keep it all professional and on the level. Never, EVER owe them anything, even if itís $1 to get a soda out of the vending machine. Never ask them for favors and never give them personal information. You might be amazed at how someone could use your street address or the fact they loaned you a few bucks to get leverage over you. Some people are truly masters at getting inside your head.

Still the optimal situation is to avoid them altogether as much as possible.

Take that advice from me. I know a few things about dealing with antisocial deviants; Iíve worked with attorneys for close to 10 years now.

-Joe
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John Peterson John Peterson is offline
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08-19-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Fantastic Post Joe!

This is the kind of valuable information that one gains only through personal experience. I'm delighted that you have shared this so that other forum friends can read this and became more aware of what they are dealing with and even more importantly learn how they can best protect themselves.

One point that I want to make clear is that the Anti-Social Deviant is not really capable of being a true friend to anyone. This twisted type of personality is always playing one person against another for the purpose of gaining a personal advantage over others. As soon as The Anti-Social Deviant has used a person for his or her own private agenda and perceives that there is no further advantage to be gained by having a relationship with that person they will then 'get rid of that person' as though that person is refuse and not a human being with feelings and then they will go on to the next 'mark' that they can use for their own diaboloical plans.

Once again Joe, that was a superb post. I hope every forum member reads it, prints it, and refers to it from time to time.

---John Peterson
 
 
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VRT Man VRT Man is offline
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08-19-2009, 10:35 AM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeJustice View Post
The bossís wife was very, very sweet with everyone who came in, complemented them and told them what a good job they were doing, everyone loved her. But I began to notice as the day went on that as soon as the person was out of the room, she would turn to me and say something downright hateful about whoever was just there; most of the time it was a comment about how the person looked, who they were sleeping with or some other gossip.

I distinctly remember thinking, ďMan, sheís pretty rough on these people, Iím glad sheís always nice to me.Ē At some point it dawned on me that she was always nice to everyone, as long as they were in the room. Wonder what she had to say about me when I wasnít there?
In absolute agreement, Joe. I've exerienced this effect many times over. This forum is civil. Often others are not, and are a pissing ground for unleashing suppressed hostility.

--Greg Mangan
 
 
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gruntbrain gruntbrain is offline
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08-19-2009, 11:21 AM
 
At times, being a fashionable, social, people pleaser can drain you like a drought ; ie, under certain conditions it's healthy to be antisocial.
 
 
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Andy62 Andy62 is offline
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08-19-2009, 12:34 PM
 
This has been a very interesting and very timely discussion and I thank John for bringing it up. Having been through various situations and having dealt with a number of these types I would say that learning to deal with such people is absolutely necessary and a survival technique. It will affect your health, your strength, and every part of your life. In early 1972 I received an offer that represented a fantastic promotion and a great increase in what appeared at the time to be future possibilites. The offer required me to relocate my family to another city and I was on top of the world having set all kinds of sales records in my career up to that point. The company that I joined had experienced rapid growth and was bringing in a number of people like me who were in their early to mid 30s and had been very successful and everything looked up. I found out that there is a big difference in being successful at sales and going into management in a politically intensive company. To make a long story short there was one individual there who was everybody's friend with a very socially active wife and a favorite of the President of the company. We were a subsidiary of a major company with about 115 employees in our divisional home office and 5 branch offices. As it turned out the guy who was everybody's friend turned out to be a " shark" who played up to people to get them to drop their defenses and reveal their weaknesses. He and his socailly active wife were a team and she would work the wives to find personal weakensses of the employees as well as weaknesses in their marriage which really intensified the threat. It was a fertile field as we had all been relocated from other areas and were in a new environment having left our family and business connections behind. To make matters worse the company President was very "naive and trusting" himself and in 1973 the gas crisis hit with a devastating effect on the economy which really stirred the pot. Our main shark and his wife played people against other people in the company at every juncture which raised the anger and stress level in the company by playing that old psychological game "let's you and he fight" Looking back on it from this perspective it really didn't benefit anybody. Through great personal stress I was able to succeed as were several other people,but for almost everybody else in the company the situation destroyed their lives. This is the period where I discovered DVR/VRT and Isometrics which not only helped me shake off stress,but also hellped me develop the "intuitive abilities" which I credit with not only allowing me to survive ,but also to prosper. I can't even calculate what the divorce rate was among the people who were in that situation as most saw their total lives fall apart. There have also been a number of deaths. [when you destroy hope the mind shuts down] Perhaps the most tragedies occurred with the perpetrators themsleves and those who they were able to enlist into their cause. Not only the adults themselves,but their children which reminds me of what shrewd observer at the time said. "People like that [the sharks] can't leave that type of behavior and their social devancy at the office -they take it with them wherever they go including home at night." The culprits destroyed their own lives,but unfortunately along wth way they destroyed the lives of many people who probably to this day haven't figured out what happened. One book that I found very helpful along the way and that I highly recommend is "Games People Play" by Dr Eric Berne. Be careful of negative people who are always putting down other people and trying to play you against them as they don't have your best interest at heart and are only projecting out their own weaknesses and their own psychosis.

http://www.ericberne.com/Games_People_Play.htm
 
 
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MikeNY MikeNY is offline
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08-19-2009, 03:03 PM
 
Very interesting thread to read along. There are always rats in every sewer.
 
 
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April April is offline
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08-20-2009, 06:51 AM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeJustice View Post
John,

Antisocial personalities can, in fact, be very, very social.

...

I distinctly remember thinking, “Man, she’s pretty rough on these people, I’m glad she’s always nice to me.” At some point it dawned on me that she was always nice to everyone, as long as they were in the room. Wonder what she had to say about me when I wasn’t there?

...

If you have to interact with an antisocial, say it’s a coworker, keep it all professional and on the level. Never, EVER owe them anything, even if it’s $1 to get a soda out of the vending machine. Never ask them for favors and never give them personal information. You might be amazed at how someone could use your street address or the fact they loaned you a few bucks to get leverage over you. Some people are truly masters at getting inside your head.

Still the optimal situation is to avoid them altogether as much as possible.

...

-Joe


Profound statements.

Thanks for sharing.

Excellent points.

Last edited by April; 08-20-2009 at 06:53 AM.
 
 
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Andy62 Andy62 is offline
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08-20-2009, 02:41 PM
 
These types can cause all kinds of trouble and even destroy lives,but they don't have power unless we give it to them. If you are dealing with one of them it is important to remember that they are really screwed up people and it is not that hard to reverse the process once you realize what you are dealing with. There is no weaker personality than one that is dependent on controlling the reactions of other people to validate it. All you have to do is to change your reaction pattern. You can actually reprogram yourself not to react. When I first learned this technique I would visualize the situtaion that the manipulator was using and then visualize myself reacting in a different manner while drivng the new thought impluses into my mind using DVR/VRT, Isometrics, or Power Flexing. Adding the exercises makes the results more effective than just using positive thinking or visualization by themselves. If the manipulator is used to making you mad and they don't get that reaction when they pull the old "psychological trigger" it will drive them crazy. I have actually come across instances where the manipulator winds up saying "you are not supposed to do that. One woman that I know got that exact reaction when dealing with her exhusband. "The controller becomes the controlled"


I actually got to the point where I could control any emotional reaction at will even in a surprised situtation under stressful business conditions. There is no greater feeling of personal power!


"The exercises,as you know, are merely the vehicles by means of which the nervous system is aroused to greater activity through the intense application of the mind in producing resistance and rigidity of the muscles. In the process you are developing a highly evolved state of mind and body known a NERVE FORCE. Aim constantly to increase in your ability to exert your mind on your muscles."

Alois P. Swoboda

Last edited by Andy62; 08-20-2009 at 02:43 PM.
 
 
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April April is offline
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08-21-2009, 11:12 AM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy62 View Post
There is no weaker personality than one that is dependent on controlling the reactions of other people to validate it. All you have to do is to change your reaction pattern. You can actually reprogram yourself not to react. When I first learned this technique I would visualize the situtaion that the manipulator was using and then visualize myself reacting in a different manner while drivng the new thought impluses into my mind using DVR/VRT, Isometrics, or Power Flexing. Adding the exercises makes the results more effective than just using positive thinking or visualization by themselves. If the manipulator is used to making you mad and they don't get that reaction when they pull the old "psychological trigger" it will drive them crazy. I have actually come across instances where the manipulator winds up saying "you are not supposed to do that. One woman that I know got that exact reaction when dealing with her exhusband. "The controller becomes the controlled"


I actually got to the point where I could control any emotional reaction at will even in a surprised situtation under stressful business conditions. There is no greater feeling of personal power!
Thank you for this concrete example of how you have used DVRs, etc., to work through things and help you deal with difficult situations. It is certainly worth a try.

What sweet revenge when the controller becomes the controlled.

What do you think of "answering a question with a question" when someone tries to put you on the spot (another controlling technique, I think)?
 
 
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gruntbrain gruntbrain is offline
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08-21-2009, 11:36 AM
 
How does the Law of Attraction apply in these difficult social interactions? I reject it as a "law" but accept it as a slight tendency. In any case, it's probably worthwhile to question "what the heck am I doing to deserve this ?"
 
 
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