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Ending The Vegan Charade
 
 
John Peterson John Peterson is offline
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03-25-2019, 07:34 AM
 
Hello Friends,

Quote:
The word Charade means: 1)An absurd pretence intended to create a pleasant or respectable appearance.
‘talk of unity was nothing more than a charade’
2)an act or event that is obviously false, although represented as true:
From the beginning we knew who would get the job – the interviews were just a charade.


Over the years I have had many, many people try to convince me to be a vegan vegetarian. Some went so far as to try to convince me to be a 'raw food vegan'. It never happened.

Although I could see certain benefits from including a high percentage raw plant foods I was never able to fully embrace it because it flat out didn't feel right and I would begin to experience 'cravings'. One man in particular was perhaps one of the finest men I have ever befriended in my entire life and yet even he fell for this whole charade even though he admitted to me that he had cravings for fish from time to time. This should have told him that his body was craving certain nutrients that he was not getting from a strict raw food vegan diet. (In my case I craved steak tartar from time to time. And I was criticized for admitting it many times.)

Why am I telling you this? View this and then lets discuss it.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/vegan-...e-change-diets

---John Peterson


Last edited by John Peterson; 03-25-2019 at 07:37 AM.
 
 
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lionking lionking is offline
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03-25-2019, 07:55 AM
 
A Lacto-ovo vegetarian diet has been shown by many longitudinal studies to be the healthiest diet for humans. A long term vegan diet is lacking in nutrients. The problem is anytime you make something the basis of your identity and you falter, it crushes your psyche.
Yet If I had to choose between being a vegan or eating fast food and processed meat everyday, I would choose veganism in a heartbeat.
 
 
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John Peterson John Peterson is offline
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03-25-2019, 08:54 AM
 
Hello Lion King,

What you have stated above is really sad.

Sad because both are unhealthy when continued long term BUT the really sad thing is that those that embrace the raw food vegan diet are some of the most sincere people that you could ever meet that are trying hard to be healthy. The fact is that they have been manipulated to believe a great deal of false information and that is truly sad.

On another point. I have studied nutrition for many, many years. I am also a naturopath. Yet, in spite of my constant quest for knowledge I too, have been mislead more than once.

Here is a point I want to make.

Making blanket statements is not wise. The reason I say this is because for the first 15 years of our forum I often made blanket statements that were merely based on information that I had been given and accepted as fact.

Today I am a great deal more careful about what I say and no longer make blanket statements that I cannot back up. Some of the men on our forum have contacted me to tell me that they have noticed this and are behind me 100% because they know that I am doing my best to bring the truth to light.

Here is another point that I wish to make. Whether it is relating to health and fitness of Body, Mind or Spirit I will not be angry with anyone that can enlighten me and show me where I have been wrong. To the contrary, if someone can prove to me that I have been wrong in some of my assertions I will be grateful and not angry and will in fact state it on our forum just as I have the past year. Our goal is to bring the best fact based information to our friends. Lets all embrace the truth and the truth only.

---John Peterson
 
 
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kenpopaul kenpopaul is offline
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03-25-2019, 09:48 AM
 
Great post and something that interests me being Vegan and also I follow a lot of vegan YouTube channels, so this has been a hot topic.

I saw a great video the other day titled something like "13 traits of ex vegan youtubers" which basically listed things like many of them had health problems before going vegan, many did or do take recreational drugs, many had eating disorders before and during veganism, etc etc. But the one that stuck out most for me is that all of them did some extreme form of veganism such as Just Keto, or no fat, or high carb low fat, or Just eating fruit, or only raw foods etc etc - rather than a balanced diet.

There is no vitamin, mineral or amino acid that is not available on a BALANCED vegan diet. one of the only things that is recommended is a B12 supplement as well as D3. That is not a failing of vegan foods, but more an agricultural problem as B12 is present in soil/fresh water. But since all fruits and veggies are washed these days and we don't drink out of streams and wells, then we need to get it from somewhere. Plus stats show that 39% of meat eaters are B12 deficient, so everyone should be taking it. same for D3 if you live in an area of the world that doesn't get a lot of sunlight. I live in the UK so this fits this category haha.

A lot of people that fail on a vegan diet do so from lack of nutritional information, rather than a failing of a plant based diet.

I also suspect a lot of these so called vegan youtubers only jumped on the vegan wagon for fame and fortune as it's a hot subject at the moment and a lot of money to be made from it.

INteresting stuff though

- Kenpopaul
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03-26-2019, 09:21 AM
 
Hello Kenpopaul,

You make some great points. The big take away from what YOU have written is that regardless of who it is that decides to adopt a vegan lifestyle they need to continually monitor themselves and be aware of what is happening in and with their body from day to day. This is true of everyone.

To give an example of the need for daily reflection I am reminded of a man that I knew years ago by the name of Dick Holdahl ( a great guy that died more than 20 years ago in a motor cycle accident). Dick had decided to get himself back in shape in order to pursue a new love interest that he had. To accomplish this Dick decided to go on the Atkins diet. The truth is that within three months he had lost a tremendous amount of body fat and had built himself up to a remarkable extent. Dick was one guy that took the Charles Atlas Course seriously and followed through to the letter and it paid off big time. Anyway as relates to the Atkins Diet...it worked exactly as Dr. Atkins said that it would and for those first three months Dick felt absolutely great until his body became so deprived of carbohydrates that he became irritable and irrational. He came over to talk with me and he seemed totally bewildered. It was August and peaches were in season and I offered him one. When he ate that peach it was almost as though someone had flipped on the switch. He immediately cheered up and began to think more coherently. He asked me, "How did you know?". I went to my book shelf and showed him my newest book which was "Undaunted Courage" published in '96 about the Lewis and Clark expedition. In the book Meriwether Louis stated that there was a period to time that the men were eating 10 pounds of bison per men, per day and they felt starved because they had no carbohydrates and as a result they ended up with all kinds of behavioral problems. Bottom line: I told Dick that he had gone as far as he could with Atkins and that it was time to incorporate more balance back into his diet. He did exactly that and found exactly how much carbohydrate he could have before he started getting fat. Dick was a really cool guy we had some great discussions and I miss him.

---John Peterson

 
 
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kenpopaul kenpopaul is offline
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03-27-2019, 05:32 AM
 
Hey John

Yes totally agree! I actually got my bloodwork done a few weeks ago to make sure everything was ok as I had been feeling very tired lately. The results came back as all in normal range, which was good to hear.

Everyone is differet, so finding that balnce is the key.

- Kenpopaul
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ezekial1925 ezekial1925 is offline
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03-29-2019, 08:52 AM
 
Great discussion John and Ken! Having gone fully vegan about 6 or 7 months ago, I have had NOOO cravings for meat or dairy, which has kinda surprised me. lol.
I do believe we are designed to eat predominantly fruits and vegetables as very reputable long-term studies such as the China Study attest. On the other hand,, there are very few if any, evidentiary studies or records that document 100% veganism as the best diet for Man. There are plenty of healthy vegans and quite a few healthy RAW vegans as well out there. The China Study is a very well-researched and conducted study that touts and proves the efficacy of a plant-based diet. Yet, the participants in the study did eat some animal protein in the form of casein which comprised about 5% of their diet When that figure increased to 20%, cancer and disease followed.
So, if animal protein or food was used as a side dish, people were healthy, when used as the main course or even as a significant side dish,, disease surfaced. What I am trying to say is I thing we are designed to be vegans but there are no long-term studies or evidence to prove this. We are NOT herbivores with multiple stomachs, we are not carnivores like lions,, and we don';t have the physiology of an omnivore like a dog. WE mostly(about 97%), resemble a chimpanzee, a primate who in it's natural habitat eats a fruit-based diet. Even the latest carbon dating points to Man being originally a tropical islander. Anyway, just my 2 cents. I have come to believe there is no real benefit or advantage to consuming flesh food and certainly dairy. AND I say that non-dogmatically, lol! Great discussion,, thank you.
 
 
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03-29-2019, 12:51 PM
 
Hello Ezekiel1925,

I read the China Study several years ago as well as a series of studies refuting the conclusions of the China Study.

The truth is, there is plenty of science-based information and evidence on both sides of the issue if you look for it.

What I truly find interesting though is that at this stage of my life in my 67th year, I can see that my grandfather was right all along. He had several editions of Mcfadden's Encyclopedia of Physical Culture and a 1939 original copy of Weston Price's book "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" that literally validated everything presented in Mac Fadden's Encyclopedia. I have that original copy. And I would also say that Weston Price had the best balance overall in terms of his approach to natural nutrition as a preventative of the diseases of degeneration.

You can read Weston Price's "Nutrition & Physical Degeneration for yourself right here:

https://healthwyze.org/archive/nutri...on_a_price.pdf

You'll notice that when the book was published in 1939, there was still a number of indigenous tribes found throughout the world that practiced natural nutrition and were completely unaffected by diseases of civilization which were mainly due to refined foods and especially refined sugar. (Make sure you read about the people from the Swiss valley. Great stuff.)

I mention everything above for one reason. Every few years there is a popular diet that takes different things to an extreme like the KETO diet that is in vogue right now. But the truth is that if you truly want the truth about nutrition and the evidence for what nutrition did for native peoples you can't do better than Dr. price's 1939 classic that was written long before Shipping and refrigeration and at a time when people were basically forced to live off the foods that were produced within the climate and environment they lived in. Bottom line: I have never read anything better than Nutrition & Physical Degeneration and the sad truth is that it should have been titled: "Nutrition & The Quest For Super Health"


Here is a list of 20-Realistic Nutritional and Healthy Living goals and duidelines as presented by the Weston Price Foundation.

1) Eat whole, unprocessed foods.

2) Eat beef, lamb, game, organ meats, poultry and eggs from pasture-fed animals.

3) Eat wild fish (not farm-raised), fish eggs and shellfish from unpolluted waters.

4) Eat full-fat milk products from pasture-fed cows, preferably raw and/or fermented, such as raw milk, whole yogurt, kefir, cultured butter, full-fat raw cheeses and fresh and sour cream.

5) Use animal fats, such as lard, tallow, egg yolks, cream and butter liberally.

6) Use only traditional vegetable oils—extra virgin olive oil, expeller-expressed sesame oil, small amounts of expeller-expressed flax oil, and the tropical oils—coconut oil, palm oil and palm kernel oil.

7) Take cod liver oil regularly to provide at least 10,000 IU vitamin A and 1,000 IU vitamin D per day.

8) Eat fresh fruits and vegetables, preferably organic. Use vegetables in salads and soups, or lightly steamed with butter.

9) Use whole grains, legumes and nuts that have been prepared by soaking, sprouting or sour leavening to neutralize phytic acid, enzyme inhibitors and other anti-nutrients.

10) Include enzyme-rich lacto-fermented vegetables, fruits, beverages and condiments in your diet on a regular basis.

11) Prepare homemade stocks from the bones of pastured chicken, beef and lamb fed non-GMO feed, and wild fish, and use liberally in soups, stews, gravies and sauces.

12) Use filtered water for cooking and drinking.

13) Use unrefined salt and a variety of herbs and spices for food interest and appetite stimulation.

14) Make your own salad dressing using raw vinegar, extra virgin olive oil and a small amount of expeller-expressed flax oil.

15) Use traditional sweeteners in moderation, such as raw honey, maple syrup, maple sugar, date sugar, dehydrated cane sugar juice (sold as Rapadura) and stevia powder.

16) Use only unpasteurized wine or beer in strict moderation with meals.

17) Cook only in stainless steel, cast iron, glass or good quality enamel.

18) Use only natural, food-based supplements.

19) Get plenty of sleep, exercise and natural light.

20) Think positive thoughts and practice forgiveness.


---John Peterson
 
 
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