Reply
Share |
Thread Tools Display Modes
Progression in Bodyweight Training - Which direction do you go?
 
 
Greg Newton Greg Newton is offline
Legacy Member


Reply With Quote
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Foothills of S.C.
Posts: 6,766
01-23-2011, 05:13 AM
 
In reviewing over my workout logs, one thing has become clear over the past few months. Calisthenics, such as pushups, which at one time were the drivers, are only part of the program now. Three fifths of my workouts are now DSR, DVR, and Isometric.

I am going to say something that will shock some and hopefully encourage others, but there comes a time when pushing more and more repetitions in deep knee bends and pushups is more of a detriment than a help. Let me explain.

Extreme fitness is a worthy goal. What I don't think some realize is that programs of 500 or more pushups or other calisthenics are to be done for a limited time period. In other words, to achieve a specific result.

Once one has reached a certain level of repetitions, it is time to tighten your form, look for ways to make the exercise harder, and to utilize the self-resistance exercises in combination with the calisthenics. Too often we get the rap here for promoting outrageous numbers of pushups and deep knee bends. That is not the case.

However, many often look at John and think you have to aspire to be a human dynamo. They forget that John has been doing this style of exercise all his life and that he has learned to push boundries, mental and physical, aside. Too, one of the reasons John trains the volume he does, is to offset the effects and constant pain of post polio syndrome. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing that, but I think that is something some people miss.

So what at level of conditioning should you level off and move into other directions? That is an individual decision. What are you satisfied with?

I've done different things such as high rep pushups in various forms, high rep deep knee bends, and high rep abdominal exercises. Currently, I could knock off 100 or more strict Tiger Stretch pushups and 300 or more Tiger Bend Squats, back to back. Heck, I could throw a set of 100 Atlas Situps in between and another set of pushups at the end. Realistically, how much more conditioning do I need to do to maintain health and a degree of cardiovascular fitness?

Currently I am more interested in developing strength for strict, controlled chinning and to sculpt the midsection. I am also more interested in pure bodybuilding, muscle for muscle's sake. Is that wrong? No, it is what I choose to follow at this point in time.

The point is, there is a progression to all this. Once you've achieved a milestone, be it 100 pushups, 300 deep knee bends, or whatever, it is then time to sit back, take stock and plan the next direction, whether it be tighter form, a more difficult version of an exercise or moving towards self resistance.

Which, I must add, we tend to look at as an afterthought here, or at least I have. What we miss is that not only can self-resistance exercises like DSR, DVR, and Isometric contractions be done in sets, but that combined with calisthenics they produce a synergy that increases the results beyond that of just one or the other.

Hopefully I have given some of you food for thought.

Greg Newton

 
 
Share |
 
 
brigade brigade is offline
Member

Reply With Quote
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 29
01-23-2011, 10:20 AM
 
Greg,
This is a very insightful post I for one am really letting this set in. For the past 10 years I have been of the opinion more volume = better results. But as I have gotten older and started having elbow and shoulder problems due to countless pushups I realize it is time to change up the routine. I will always love doing pushups but It is time to back down and really concentrate on adding tension and easing off on the numbers and adding some DSR/DVR exercises. Not only will this save my tendons it will also save me a boat load of time. Thank you for the post and have a great day.

Brig
 
 
Share |
 
 
duff duff is offline
Senior Member
duff's Avatar

Reply With Quote
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,072
01-23-2011, 04:20 PM
 
I so often see this straw man argument thrown about in fitness marketing where they say something like "bored of endless or mindless repetitions?" The fact is, 99% of exercisers can't do GUTS (which only takes 24 minutes a day, 20 if you don't do the MILO---and if you do it 3x/week that's only 60 minutes a week of exercise!). Nobody here or anywhere else advocates for any repetition to be "mindless." 20 minutes a day is hardly "endless," and all repetitions should be done with complete mindfulness and leaving energy in the bank so that you don't burn out. The fact is, none of these other programs that avoid high repetitions like the plague develop these kids of extreme levels of conditioning in such a time-efficient manner. Sometimes I feel like they encourage laziness and raise boredom up to a virtue. Granted there are times when you need to switch it up, but doing exercises with perfect mindfulness and attention is the ultimate method for combating boredom.

Once someone can do something like GUTS, their conditioning levels are off the charts. At that point I think you're exactly right, Greg---other exercises like DSRs, DVRs, and ISOs come into play at that point to maximize physical strength and muscular development.

Last edited by duff; 01-23-2011 at 04:23 PM.
 
 
Share |
 
 
Andy62 Andy62 is offline
Senior Member
Andy62's Avatar

Reply With Quote
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,934
01-23-2011, 05:01 PM
 
Transformetric"s secret weapon is a secret no more. It is "internal physiological" exercise. It develops the whole person and can be adapted to any physical location and any life situation regardless of age, economic circumstance, or physical condition. Other instructors teach calisthenics and other forms or external isotonic exercise,but even when they try to teach internal physiological exercise they can't do it. It takes a much deeper knowledge of the individual and the human psyche than any of them have. Nobody else in this field has the depth of knowledge that John Peterson has in such a wide variety of subjects from history to literature that reflect and draw on the total human experience. We live in a world of change and change can be fun and exhilerating as long as you can train yourself to adapt to it and take advantage of it. "Things don't happen to you they happen for you." One form of change that we all must deal with as long as we are alive is the aging process.I have always remembered a quote by Hank Aaron when he turned 40,"I can do everything at 40 that I could do at age 20 it just takes me longer to recover." In the US 10,000 people a day are turning 65. I recently turned 72 so I have been through it. On my 72nd birthday I did 100 straight pushups. When I am doing them in my workouts I typically do sets of 75. Golfer Gary Player is one of the best conditioned athletes ever. He is in his 70s and he recently said, "it is hard to build strength after age 70". I find myself leaning more and more toward internal physiological exercise [DVR/VRT, Isometrics, and power flexing] and away from high rep calisthenics. I have lived a life with a lot of changes in it - some were intentional and some were not; some were enjoyable and some were not,but it is part of my personality. I always had to see what was on the other side of the mountain. This form of exercise really is the very definition of "self mastery" as it gives your conscious mind control over you subconscious mind like no other form of exercise-it is a form meditation, moving or other wise. The more that I have researched and thought about Alois P. Swoboda in connection with the book that Greg and I are collaborating on; the more I have come to appreciate the sheer genius of the man. He developed a program that really did tap into and develop the potential power that we all posssess when he said,
"Within everyone of us is an 'evolutionary success principle' placed there by the creator to help us survive and succeed in an ever changing universe."

Last edited by Andy62; 01-23-2011 at 05:25 PM.
 
 
Share |
 
 
John Peterson John Peterson is offline
Author
John Peterson's Avatar

Reply With Quote
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 14,051
01-23-2011, 06:20 PM
 
Hey Friends,

Great topic. And great insights shared by one and all.

Greg, I could not agree more with what you have stated in this paragraph:

"What we miss is that not only can self-resistance exercises like DSR, DVR, and Isometric contractions be done in sets, but that combined with calisthenics they produce a synergy that increases the results beyond that of just one or the other."

Greg, What you have stated above is totally true. It's all about achieving balance that allows one to feel fully alive and fully functioning.

And Gordon, I really appreciate the insights you share in this paragraph,

"I find myself leaning more and more toward internal physiological exercise [DVR/VRT, Isometrics, and power flexing] and away from high rep calisthenics.... This form of exercise really is the very definition of "self mastery" as it gives your conscious mind control over you subconscious mind like no other form of exercise-it is a form meditation, moving or other wise."

---John Peterson
 
 
Share |
 
 
blackbelt blackbelt is offline
Legacy Member
blackbelt's Avatar

Reply With Quote
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Battle Creek, MI
Posts: 1,634
01-24-2011, 07:36 AM
 
What I'm about to post, may be a no-brainer, or a “duh” to some. But, I think some over-look this, especially when it comes to progression.

While a person doesn’t have to do JUST calisthenics, or just self-resistance exercises to get particular results, there also isn’t any SINGLE “magic” formula for combining the two. There is only a “magic” formula for each individual, and those vary at different points in time.

Some people training by doing pc’s, and mixing in self-resistance exercises in between sets.

Other’s may do a core workout consisting solely of pc’s, then finish it off with self-resistance work.

Still others may do self-resistance to “pre-fatigue” their muscles, before doing pc’s.

My point in all of this is that the options are literally endless.

Our biggest challenge, yet most worthwhile goal is to find the “mix” that works best for us.

In all of this, we have to also realize that this “mix” will likely not remain static for prolonged periods of time. Our needs and desires change. Our energy levels change. Everything changes, and we need to adapt our workout routines accordingly. If we do not change, we will most definitely reach a plateau and not break through. Even if we do something as simple as push through, we’re still changing something.
__________________
Train a little, or train a lot, but TRAIN.

Rob

Last edited by blackbelt; 01-24-2011 at 07:41 AM.
 
 
Share |
 
 
Paul_DuVall Paul_DuVall is offline
Senior Member
Paul_DuVall's Avatar

Reply With Quote
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 356
01-24-2011, 10:26 AM
 
I know for me that one of my focuses has been strong upper body strength particularly in the area of climbing without using the lower body at all. There is just an amazing feeling in my mind when I climb up a rope using just my arms and not my legs. This is something that I am so serious about, that I am paying a guy to come build a rope climbing station in my backyard. I can't wait for it to be done! The reason for a rope climbing station rather than just a thick tree branch with a rope tied to it is that I want to have two ropes hanging at the same height for rope climbing races.
__________________
Paul DuVall - A son of the King of Kings!
 
 
Share |
 
 
duff duff is offline
Senior Member
duff's Avatar

Reply With Quote
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,072
01-24-2011, 05:19 PM
 
Excellent points, Rob. The possible variations are numerous, and one's needs change over time.
 
 
Share |
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:13 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.


Bronze Bow Publishing Copyright © 2008 Bronze Bow Publishing. All Rights Reserved.