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Correcting What I Stated That Was Wrong...
 
 
John Peterson John Peterson is offline
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03-04-2019, 11:11 AM
 
Hello My Friends,

I have studied Physical Culture from my earliest youth and there were certain writers and concepts that truly resonated with me and certainly none more so than the Original Charles Atlas course.

What I was drawn to with Atlas was the idea that we were all already complete and that God had so perfectly structured the human body that the body itself was all that was needed to achieve a perfect development relative to one's own bone structure. I still love that idea.

The thing that I was wrong about and that I have repeated all of my life was something that John McSweeney, Charles Atlas, Frank Rudolph Young, Alois P Swoboda, Edwin Checkley, Bernarr MacFadden and many others stated and that I repeated and that is the idea that you can and will be able to achieve the same kind of size,shape, and strength with body weight only training combined with Isometric Contraction that you can achieve as the result of heavy weight training...You simply cannot.

That is incorrect.

With Body Weight Training combining Body Weight Calisthenics, Dynamic Virtual Resistance, and Isometrics you absolutely can achieve a perfectly balanced physique and great strength, endurance and flexibility in direct relationship to your own body and the demands that you are capable of placing on it.

What I had wrong is really quite simple to explain with logic and common sense and yet I never really questioned it. For example when I discussed Tiger Moves with John McSweeney personally he said that he had several young students that developed the same kind of muscle size and shape with Tiger Moves and that some had surpassed the development that they had previously achieved with weights and machines. I believed him. Having achieved great results with Atlas's method I didn't even question that assertion but now I am going to correct it.

The fact is that if your desire is to become as strong and as heavily muscled as is possible You cannot achieve that objective with body weight exercise only.

Why?

Because it turns out that Peary Rader and others were correct that something happens physiologically in direct response to using heavier and heavier weight that cannot happen without it. Namely that if you are supporting hundreds and hundreds of pounds while squatting for example...your body will try to protect itself by becoming much thicker in your torso, hips, and legs in order to give you added leverage and stability to handle the demands that are being placed on it. You could do freehand squats till frogs grow feathers and not get the kind of specific thickness and strength that you would achieve doing sets of reps with two or three times one's body weight on the barbell. That type of demand will force the body to become thicker and stronger in the specific way in order to adapt...So if what you truly want is to be as big, thick and strong as you can possibly be then the truth is that bodyweight training, DVR, & Isometrics will take most people to their absolute natural best level of athletic perfection just as it does with a gymnast, but if you want to go way beyond that to the maximum in size and strength as relates to lifting weights then you will have to use heavy weights that force adaptation and if you want to take it far beyond that as some men obviously do, you will then have to take steroids and other forms of chemical enhancement. That is the truth.

Friends, the reason I am placing this post here is because a young man is asking me if he can become as big and strong with Power Belt Isometrics and DVRs as he could if he took up serious heavy weight training and the answer is 'NO!' You simply cannot create the same kind of level of demand without weights that you can with weights. Nor will you compress your spine and put yourself at risk for continual joint damage that you do when using the heaviest possible weights and particularly if you add to it chemical enhancement. In my mind a beautiful, natural and athletic development looks best but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if someone wants to achieve the maximum in muscular development you'll have to use weights to do it.

Now, having said what I have said above let me also state that in terms of strength/endurance to body weight ratio that no amount of weight training will take you that far...in fact becoming excessively big will literally shut you down in terms of pull-Ups and other body weight exercises and the body's strength/endurance in direct relationship to itself.

Bottom Line: it all depends on what you want to achieve and if size is your number one priority heavy weights will get you to maximum that body weight alone will not.

---John Peterson
 
 
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lionking lionking is offline
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03-05-2019, 07:49 AM
 
I respectfully disagree John. I think consistent high rep calisthenics can maximize muscle growth. I'm not sure Herschel walker or Jim Forystek could have gotten any bigger with weights than they got with push-ups.
 
 
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03-05-2019, 08:48 AM
 
i agree with your post.doing squats with weights is why i have thick stomach area.i have not been able to changed it.if i would known that i would not lifted weights then.at 70 years old i love the isometric program.
 
 
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John Peterson John Peterson is offline
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03-05-2019, 05:59 PM
 
Hello Lion King,

You obviously didn't read everything I wrote because if you had you would know that I agree with you that Big Jim Forystek and Herschel Walker had both achieved their natural potential. BUT I was not talking about one's natural potential and that is why I never mentioned either man.

Where I disagree is that I know that both men would have had to go on a heavy-duty weight and chemical enhancement program to achieve greater muscle size. At 6'1" with his bone structure Big Jim weighed 275 when we did his course and I will assure you that with his extraordinarily heavy bone structure he could have weighed 350 pounds easily. Jim achieved his natural best but if you read what I wrote I was talking about going beyond one's natural best. Same is true for Herschel Walker. In his book, he stated that he did 300 push-ups and 1,000 sit-ups daily while he was in college. He now claims to do many times that number each day and at age 57 is still at his natural best. BUT don't kid yourself, Herschel Walker, as superbly developed as he is could have been much bigger as the result of lifting heavy weights and doing a massive amount of chemical enhancement as every Mr. Olympia has done. Walker stands 6'1" and weighs 225 just as he did when he starred in the NFL 30 years ago. Consider this fact and realize the following about four different Mr. Olympias that were all heavy chemical users as well as lifted heavy weights.

Mr. Olympia Ronnie Colman stood 5'11" and weighed 297 pounds in competition, Mr Olympia Dorian Yates 5'10" 267 pounds, Mr Olympia Phil Heath 5'9" 240 pounds, Lee Preist 5'4" and 225 pounds and once weighed 265 at 3% body fat at 5'4".

Believe me, had either Big Jim Forystek or Hershel Walker ( Both men perfectly developed for their bone-structure) gone on heavyweights and chemical enhancement both would have easily weighed 50 pounds more. Thank God they didn't. Both men are strong and healthy.

---John Peterson


 
 
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lionking lionking is offline
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03-05-2019, 09:41 PM
 
Yes, steroids and growth hormones cause unnatural growth. But without the chemicals, I believe you can get the same growth and strength with calisthenics that you can with heavy weights. Imagine if you took 2 identical twin brothers age 18. They both eat identically and get the same amount of rest. One brother lifted progressively heavy weights for his chest ( bench, flys, dumbbell presses). The other brother did a variety of push-ups for 500 reps per day. Maybe I'm naive, but I think after one year of training they would have nearly identical pectoral muscularity and strength.
I've seen too many gigantic guys who only did push-ups to believe heavy weights can stimulate more muscle growth than body weight exercise.
 
 
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ezekial1925 ezekial1925 is offline
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03-05-2019, 09:58 PM
 
But John, could Herschel and Big Jim achieved massive gains and over-development without heavy lifting but WITH chemical enhancement? I, like Lion King, inferred from your post that, due to the body's adaptive mechanism when subjected to heavy weight, NOTHING can equal weight lifting chemical enhamcement or not. So my question is, all things being equal, , with or without steroids..... can calisthenics or isometrics equal heavy weight lifting for muscular development? Hopefully, I phrased everything correctly, lol.; it's getting late. Thanks for your reply.
 
 
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THESUPERBEAST THESUPERBEAST is offline
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03-06-2019, 02:03 AM
 
I dont believe extreme excessive size is possible with just bodyweight and tension excercises...though One can be mistaken for a weightlifter one can defiantly be jacked...but I concour not as transformed as a heavy weightlifter...in my opinion its all subjective..if one wanted to be muscular and jacked it can be acchieved sans weights...but Id say its physiologically impossible to be mr america or pro bodybuilder size...ill say when i took a anabolic cycle from gnc once upon a time or even creatine or whatever...the results are amplified distinctvly...but weights develop a muscular fiber density and thickness in the organism that cant be replicated without forced involuntary contractions to exhaustion...free hands methods defiantly have set point but the results still command attention and you can have a life as its minimal time for superior results..even though there not maximized or extreme..but the results are that of resistance trained appearance
 
 
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THESUPERBEAST THESUPERBEAST is offline
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03-06-2019, 02:17 AM
 
But I think john was saying chemical enhancement coupled with heavy weights would be a persons physical zenith...chemical enhancement without weights...would be another level but still not maximized but defiantly a more astounding transformation...basically its hormone manipulation that turns the key for full growth potential...and ability to force a muscle beyond internal will power..ie heavy ass weight...but to me the price of health and time is not worth it...iv been fantistcally fit strong and all around able bodied using nothing more than dvr dsr and power cals in various combinations...and i know i havent even reached or peaked to my maxiumim natrual genetic development...but also I have never put in the full time gusto to do so..im just content being as I am the body image of being a he man no longer takes precedence..my mode now is just maintaining a fair build and development and being able bodied.
 
 
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John Peterson John Peterson is offline
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03-06-2019, 09:15 AM
 
Hello Friends,

Great discussion!!! Thank you that everyone is keeping his head and keeping his cool.


I will now state something that if you read for what it says should make a certain amount of sense to you.

If you were to perform sets of 100 Atlas Balance Squats combined with Isometrics YOU will achieve a level of exceptional leg development. You really can...


BUT through body weight and Isometrics alone you will not approach what happens when you put hundreds of pounds on your shoulders and force your body to adapt to that load on your shoulders while doing squats.

Example: My friend Bryant, was talked into heavy weights 45 years ago by a steroid freak.

At 5'5" and 148 pounds Bryant had the most beautifully sculpted body one can imagine. BUT he went on the heavy steroid and squat cycle and bulked up to 218 pounds and lost the aesthetics he once had. Granted, He could squat 405 for 23 reps but he could no longer do handstand push-ups in the middle of the floor and he couldn't do more than 8-Pull-Ups in a row, whereas previously he could do sets of 25 or more. And he couldn't go on long runs with me at all...

Bottom line, I could go on and on about what he lost in order to be able to do a squat with close to 500 pounds and a bench-press of more than 425 pounds. He lost strength and endurance in direct relationship to his own body and became massive. Not only that but he lost more than an inch in height due to spinal compression. My point, and I won't back down on this, YOU CANNOT get as big with our methods as you can with steroids and heavy weights BUT it will cost you and you'll look like a freak. You might be stronger in some things but that is all. YOU will lose all around athleticism. Is it worth it? NO WAY!!! Not in my mind.

ABOVE ALL you'll never have the strength/endurance and aesthetics to body weight ratio that you will achieve with the methods I teach...You guys are welcome to believe whatever you want but I know what I am talking about...I have observed this first hand.

---John Peterson
 
 
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ezekial1925 ezekial1925 is offline
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03-06-2019, 09:26 AM
 
Thanks John and especially thanks Superbeast, You clarified things for me very well. GREAT discussion!!!!!
 
 
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